1. Subscriberduecer
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    02 Jul '09 12:20
    I have my own theories about how a soul is created, and what its use is, but I am very interested to hear what others think, and what other faith traditions think as well. I would like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
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    02 Jul '09 12:30
    Originally posted by duecer
    I have my own theories about how a soul is created, and what its use is, but I am very interested to hear what others think, and what other faith traditions think as well. I would like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    …like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    ….


    Here’s my opinion which I assume to be the same as that of most (not all) atheists:

    There is no “soul” (at least in the religious sense if I have understood that sense correctly as being a supernatural ‘container’ for the mind?).
    There is just mind (which is a process of the brain) and matter.
  3. Subscriberduecer
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    02 Jul '09 12:34
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    [b]…like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    ….


    Here’s my opinion which I assume to be the same as that of most (not all) atheists:

    There is no “soul” (at least in the religious sense if I have understood that sense correctly as being a supernatural ‘container’ for the mind?).
    There is just mind (which is a process of the brain) and matter.[/b]
    Buddhist are generally non-theists and have a (sort of) concept for soul. By your definition the "soul" is merely the conscious mind, am I right?
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    02 Jul '09 12:34
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    [b]…like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    ….


    Here’s my opinion which I assume to be the same as that of most (not all) atheists:

    There is no “soul” (at least in the religious sense if I have understood that sense correctly as being a supernatural ‘container’ for the mind?).
    There is just mind (which is a process of the brain) and matter.[/b]
    I tend to agree with andrew. The soul seems to be a by-product of the mind, however I do not think the mind is located in the brain.
  5. Donationrwingett
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    02 Jul '09 12:35
    Originally posted by duecer
    I have my own theories about how a soul is created, and what its use is, but I am very interested to hear what others think, and what other faith traditions think as well. I would like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    I agree with Andrew Hamilton. Except as it pertains to James Brown, I have no use for the term 'soul.'
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    02 Jul '09 12:55
    Originally posted by duecer
    I have my own theories about how a soul is created, and what its use is, but I am very interested to hear what others think, and what other faith traditions think as well. I would like to hear from the non-theists about their opinions on "souls" as well.
    I regard the soul as a metaphor. Sometimes this metaphor is used to denote something like the essence of a person's identity or person-hood.
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    02 Jul '09 13:05
    Originally posted by duecer
    Buddhist are generally non-theists and have a (sort of) concept for soul. By your definition the "soul" is merely the conscious mind, am I right?

    By your definition the "soul" is merely the conscious mind, am I right?

    ….


    The problem is I don’t know what meaning I should attach to the word because different people seem to mean such different things from it.
    But taking the religious meaning of the word (IF I have correctly understood it) then it is supposed to be some kind of weird supernatural ‘container’ for the mind so it is that meaning I am taking here.
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    02 Jul '09 13:071 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I tend to agree with andrew. The soul seems to be a by-product of the mind, however I do not think the mind is located in the brain.
    So ‘where’ do you think mind is located (assuming you think it is located 'somewhere'!? ) ?
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    02 Jul '09 13:13
    "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existing entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven. Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness and the immortality of truth." - Buddha

    At another time he was questioned in the traditional way three times and never answered. When pressed he explained, "If I had answered he would have thought that his search was at an end and I wanted him to continue seeking."

    No one will understand or appreciate anyone's else answer (unless they have a weak mind) so figure it out for yourself (or be weak-minded and accept another person's answer.)
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    02 Jul '09 13:323 edits
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existing entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven. Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness and the immortality of truth." - Buddha

    At another time he was questione ind) so figure it out for yourself (or be weak-minded and accept another person's answer.)
    ===========================
    "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existing entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven. Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness and the immortality of truth." - Buddha
    ================================



    I question this quotation from Buddha, He predates the Christian Gospel. Why should he sound like he's in a debate with evangelical Christianity ?

    Where did you get this quotation ?
  11. Subscriberduecer
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    02 Jul '09 14:45
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existing entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven. Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness and the immortality of truth." - Buddha

    At another time he was questione ...[text shortened]... ind) so figure it out for yourself (or be weak-minded and accept another person's answer.)
    I have my own opinions/theories etc... Its not weak minded to want to know what others think. It is the mark of a serious and mature mind.
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    02 Jul '09 15:03
    I didn't say it was weak-minded to question others - I applaud that! I said it was weak-minded to just accept an explanation without seeking for yourself. You are the opposite of that!
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    02 Jul '09 15:22
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    I didn't say it was weak-minded to question others - I applaud that! I said it was weak-minded to just accept an explanation without seeking for yourself. You are the opposite of that!
    My sentiments exactly. Now where did you get that alledged quote from the Buddha about souls and Heaven ?
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    02 Jul '09 15:251 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    ==========================
    "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existing entities. Their heart still clings to Self. They are anxious about heaven and they seek the pleasure of Self in heaven. Thus they cannot see the bliss of righteousness and the immortality of truth." - Buddha
    like he's in a debate with evangelical Christianity ?

    Where did you get this quotation ?
    There's nothing that I see in that quote that specifies that he's referring to christianity.

    I'm pretty sure the concept of a heaven and a soul predates Christianity by a long shot.
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    02 Jul '09 15:27
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I question this quotation from Buddha, He predates the Christian Gospel. Why should he sound like he's in a debate with evangelical Christianity ?
    http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/dhammananda/115.htm

    I would like to point out the fact that translation always plays a big part in these matters. That is why most Buddhists would think it absurd to get hung up on literalism or historicity (collectively we have dealt with these issues for a long time - the traditional date of Gautama's birth is 580 BC.) Often times you'll find older translations adopting almost 'biblical' language because it was assumed the concepts could more easily be conveyed using familiar terms. You can't read and explicate Buddhism. It is an invitation to use your own mind not a set of principles that must be accepted. The Buddha engaged himself in the issues that are familiar to adherents of all religions and philosophies. At the time of his birth the Indian subcontinent was richest inhabited area on the earth and indisputably the most advanced philosophically. The learned people in that society were not ignorant goat-herds watching the sky for signs. They were already scientists, mathematicians, and philosophers forging a civilization. We owe them a great debt. The analysis that the Buddha engaged in is for all practical purposes the same as modern phenomenology. That is one very important reason why Buddhism still has legs - it speaks to the human condition in a way that can easily be adapted to listener's idiom (expedient means!) It is not tied to a time or place or story. If you are human you can engage in the conversation - the same as all great human endeavors.
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