Credit and blame

According to KellyJay in a recent thread he cannot take any credit for his salvation by his version of Jesus, who incidentally, he claims also “hated” him when he was a sinner before he was saved, but saved him anyway because he loved him.

Anyway, park the erroneous contradictory nonsense about hatred and love for the moment and consider this: if a person such as KellyJay cannot take any of the “credit” for his salvation because it is all up to Jesus, then how come the rest of the unsaved human beings have to take the blame for being unsaved and consequently be burnt alive in the lake of fire by this same Jesus?

Can anyone explain this please?

According to a recent book called The New Testament the Apostle Paul's insight said no saved person had anything to boast in because eternal life was through "the gift of God."

I think some of us have learned not to immediately trust what you say someone else said too quickly, because of your manipulating people's words.

On taking credit for one's salvation you might start here:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Not of works that no one should boast." (Eph. 2:9)

You agree "THAT NO ONE SHOULD BOAST" - Yes ?

You disagree "THAT ONE SHOULD BOAST" - No ?

Perhaps you should start reading prayerfully the BIble more.

Now we learn not only what the Bible says but what ELSE it says.

Here Paul says we may boast, but not in ourselves but in the Lord Jesus.

But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God; both righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

That as it is written, 'He who boast, let him boast in the Lord.' " (1 Cor. 1:20,31)

On the other hand the saved may:

"BOAST IN THE LORD" - Yes ?
"BOAST IN THE LORD" - No?

Put the whole truth together. The saved cannot boast in themselves - "take credit". But they humbly boast in the Lord, thanking God for His credit and that we have been placed into this worthy One.

"Of God the saved is in Christ Jesus. Let him boast in the Lord."

Not allowing God to put you in Christ Jesus apparently amounts to not obeying the Gospel of Christ and having to pay a penalty.

" ... rest with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire,

Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence ofthe Lord and from the glory of His strength when He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed (because our testimony to you was believed) in that day " (Second Thess. 1:7b-10)

1.) " Pay the penalty" indicates something OWED? Yes? No ?

2.) " Vengeance " indicates a retribution or pay back? Yes? No?

3.) " Angels ... in flaming fire " whatever it means sounds dangerous? Yes? No?

4.) " Eternal destruction " sounds temporary or everlasting ?

5.) " who know not God " sounds like refusal in recognizing or in acknowledging God? Yes? No?

6.) "not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" sounds like being held responsible for how one responds to the demand of the Gospel message? Yes? No?

@sonship said
" Eternal destruction " sounds temporary or everlasting ?

If it is destruction by fire, then it sounds like annihilation, and if it's eternal, it sounds permanent. A bit like an execution. An ending.

@sonship said
I think some of us have learned not to immediately trust what you say someone else said too quickly, because of your manipulating people's words.

Which words and by whom... have I "manipulated"?

(Big talk sonship)

@divegeester said
According to KellyJay in a recent thread he cannot take any credit for his salvation by his version of Jesus, who incidentally, he claims also “hated” him when he was a sinner before he was saved, but saved him anyway because he loved him.

Anyway, park the erroneous contradictory nonsense about hatred and love for the moment and consider this: if a person such as Kell ...[text shortened]... nsequently be burnt alive in the lake of fire by this same Jesus?

Can anyone explain this please?

Easy to explain.

KellyJay didn't do such a bad job answering the question posed in his OP in the thread he started titled God Loves and Hates, but you did and do a terrible job of speaking to the topic.

You make two really stupid mistakes. One is that you make partial quotes out of context of the original and infer meaning not implied.

And the second, which is worst of all considering your claim to be a Christian, is you fail to reference the scriptures and what they say in regards to the topic, but instead heap criticism against those that do.

@FMF
sonship:

" Eternal destruction " sounds temporary or everlasting ?

FMF:

If it is destruction by fire, then it sounds like annihilation, and if it's eternal, it sounds permanent. A bit like an execution. An ending.

I believe that you already know what I might say in response to this.
With a memory like yours, I think you already know WHY this observation has weaknesses.

You tell me.
What passage am I likely to refer to to point out the weakness of this interpretation of annihilation?

@divegeester

(Big talk sonship)

Big boo-boos seem to call for "big talk" to expose them.

And it looks like SecondSon did a decent job in trying to educate you on your infamous ways here. I can't then be the only poster who has noticed.

You make two really stupid mistakes. One is that you make partial quotes out of context of the original and infer meaning not implied.

And the second, which is worst of all considering your claim to be a Christian, is you fail to reference the scriptures and what they say in regards to the topic, but instead heap criticism against those that do.

@FMF

If it is destruction by fire, then it sounds like annihilation, and if it's eternal, it sounds permanent. A bit like an execution. An ending.

After this many years I think you probably know why this would not be the end of the story in my study of the Bible.

This time before you tell us that it really doesn't matter to you ANYWAY, why not tell me WHY I, at least, would say "eternal destruction" there probably is not annihilation into non-existence.

What verse would show "smoke" goes up and not extinguishing when burning is completed, but rises forever and ever ?

Then you can fall back on "It doesn't really matter to me anyway."

@secondson said
Easy to explain.

KellyJay didn't do such a bad job answering the question posed in his OP in the thread he started titled God Loves and Hates, but you did and do a terrible job of speaking to the topic.

You make two really stupid mistakes. One is that you make partial quotes out of context of the original and infer meaning not implied.

And the second, which ...[text shortened]... iptures and what they say in regards to the topic, but instead heap criticism against those that do.

Other than your visceral dislike of me which is here thinly veiled as conjecture; do you have any explanation of why in the KellyJay version of the gospel God takes all of the credit and human take all of the blame?

@sonship said
@FMF

If it is destruction by fire, then it sounds like annihilation, and if it's eternal, it sounds permanent. A bit like an execution. An ending.

After this many years I think you probably know why this would not be the end of the story in my study of the Bible.

This time before you tell us that it really doesn't matter to you ANYWAY, why no ...[text shortened]... but rises forever and ever ?

Then you can fall back on "It doesn't really matter to me anyway."

Of course if all that brimstone and lava lakes packed full of unbelievers gnashing their teeth in the "presence of the Lamb" could just be metaphorical visions designed to contrast the future without Christ.

@divegeester

Of course if all that brimstone and lava lakes packed full of unbelievers gnashing their teeth in the "presence of the Lamb" could just be metaphorical visions designed to contrast the future without Christ.

This kind of "clever" cynical sarcasm does not help. Can't you see that ?

It doesn't cause the alarm of what is CONVEYED by the warnings of undiluted wrath of God.

I think some human beings cannot get their minds around the specter of opposing God and turning out a TOTAL LOSER.

"I can oppose God and maybe break even."

" I can oppose God and maybe get out of the whole existence."

Don't be mad with some of us who grasp that there is the specter of opposing God and ending up a TOTAL LOSER and that forever.

Some of you cannot get your heads around it. God is loving, merciful, extending salvation, taking on to Himself the curse belonging to sinners, advocating for, clearing of guilt, justifying, forgiving, atoning, forgetting sin, judging in Someone else sin, cleansing, justifying, propitiatory, absolving, and all other things related to reconciling you to His perfect Being. AND STILL ... AND STILL ... not to be rebelled against forever.

Some of you need to realize these TWO sides of God can both exist.

"Behold the kindness and severity of God." (Rom. 11:22)

@divegeester said
Other than your visceral dislike of me which is here thinly veiled as conjecture; do you have any explanation of why in the KellyJay version of the gospel God takes all of the credit and human take all of the blame?

Why are you so concerned about whether I like you or not? Saying that reveals two things about you. One is that you are emotionally immature, and insecure. The other is that your ability to reason logically is impeded by a subjectivistic mindset, which hinders objectivity.

"...God takes all of the credit and human take all of the blame?"

I seriously doubt you even know what you mean by that question, but for what it's worth I'll attempt to provide you an answer with a question.

What does the Bible say?

@sonship said
@FMF

If it is destruction by fire, then it sounds like annihilation, and if it's eternal, it sounds permanent. A bit like an execution. An ending.

After this many years I think you probably know why this would not be the end of the story in my study of the Bible.

This time before you tell us that it really doesn't matter to you ANYWAY, why no ...[text shortened]... but rises forever and ever ?

Then you can fall back on "It doesn't really matter to me anyway."

I believe you know the answer to this, the smoke of what, goes up for ever and ever? It is not the remains of creatures gone by, but what?

I heard it said today that those Christ saves goes to a place designed just for them, while those who reject God’s salvation go to a place not designed for them, but one for the devil and his angels.

It is difficult to diminish scripture that speaks to these things as if they are meaningless while debating spiritual truths.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Of course if all that brimstone and lava lakes packed full of unbelievers gnashing their teeth in the "presence of the Lamb" could just be metaphorical visions designed to contrast the future without Christ.

This kind of "clever" cynical sarcasm does not help. Can't you see that ?

It doesn't cause the alarm of what is CONVEYED by the w ...[text shortened]... TWO sides of God can both exist.

"Behold the kindness and severity of God." (Rom. 11:22)

Your strange an horrible beliefs are put here by yourself to be questioned sonship.