@sonship saidWhy haven't you addressed believers becoming the "organism of the Triune God Himself"?
The hungry, the thirsty among seeking Christians and searching ones will benefit imo.
Conference with Brother Ron Kangas 2018 Message 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy-53yuwa5U&ab_channel=Jony0210Ong
Why haven't you addressed believers becoming the "organism of the Triune God Himself"?
The first time I heard this expression I do recall. It was about 1974 in a conference in Boston. It was a fantastic time for me. I had never experienced such a feeling of one accord among Christians.
Well, I bore you no doubt. So to the point -
In short we saw that in John 15 Christ was the true vine. His Father was the husbandman tending to and caring for this true vine. And we the Christian believers were the branches of this true vine.
The crucial point: The true vine (Christ) and the abiding branches (the believers) were together one organism of the triune God. I thought on it and check the Scriptures carefully. And I said "He is right. The VINE and the BRANCHES are part of one living organism called a vine tree. "
And I still believe it to this day. And the speaker gave credit to where the concept came from - From Jesus Christ via John 15 recorded by the Apostle John and highlighted Witness Lee.
And I would venture to say probably the concept was noticed by some other astute Christian in previous years. I would have to research this.
The true vine and the abiding branches of John 15 reveal what could be called "an organism of the Triune God."
" I am the true vine, . . ." (15:1a) That is the living Christ.
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit . . . " (15:2a) The branches are living disciples of Christ
"Abide in Me and I in you, As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine so neither can you unless you abide in Me." (15:4)
The vine, the branches, and even the fruit that the branches bear are one organism - a vine tree.
Based upon this chapter of John's Gospel we Christians have the ground to speak of an organism of the Triune God.
@sonship saidThe "vine" and the "branches" are lexical elements of a metaphor that is found in the Bible. Does the presence of metaphors in the Bible allow believers to create their own metaphors and then speak about them as if they were in the Bible too?
The true vine and the abiding branches of John 15 reveal what could be called "an organism of the Triune God."
@FMF
When it comes to the matter of metaphors in the Bible, the question to those who have experienced God is "Well, which is more real?"
Marriage - a metaphor in the Bible
children - a metaphor in the Bible
father, mother, sunlight, air, water, rock, river, bread, etc. all these are used in the bible.
To the man who does consider a central reality of God behind ALL positive things, these are just metaphorical devices. But to those who have touched the unspeakable reality of the triune God, we have to ask "Well, really WHICH is more real ? "
Ie. Sunlight is a wonderful metaphor for Christ being "the Sun of Righteousness with healing in His wings" (Mal. 4:2) . But you see the physical sun of its own accord may one day burn out. Yet the Son of God is eternal, never ending, everlasting, undying. He is the reality behind all positive things in the universe. Without Him there is an essential vanity and emptiness to the whole universe.
So we muse on the matter that Christ is the anti-type of all positive things in the universe. He is the solid reality to which all the shadows or types of "metaphors" point. Christ is more real. Christ is the real rock, the real clothing, the real water, the real atmosphere, the real gravity.
You may have sunlight. But if you don't have Christ you are lacking the reality to which the physical sunlight is just a type, a pointer.
So I ask myself "Well, which is really the more REAL - the metaphor of a vine tree or Christ and His saved people united with Him as one organism?"
@sonship said'Organism of the Triune God Himself' is nonbiblical and bordering on heresy. Stop misappropriating John 15.
" I am the true vine, . . ." (15:1a) That is the living Christ.
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit . . . " (15:2a) The branches are living disciples of Christ
"Abide in Me and I in you, As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine so neither can you unless you abide in Me." (15:4)
The vine, the branches ...[text shortened]... is chapter of John's Gospel we Christians have the ground to speak of an organism of the Triune God.
@sonship saidSorry sonship, but this is a lie. When I quoted 'organism of the Triune God Himself' you reacted as though you had never heard it before and demanded that I give the source to prove Lee had said it. Now you claim to have first heard it in 1974.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Why haven't you addressed believers becoming the "organism of the Triune God Himself"?
The first time I heard this expression I do recall. It was about 1974 in a conference in Boston. It was a fantastic time for me. I had never experienced such a feeling of one accord among Christians.
Well, I bore you no doubt. So to th ...[text shortened]... the abiding branches of John 15 reveal what could be called "an organism of the Triune God."
@sonship saidI'll try again. Does the presence of metaphors in the Bible allow believers to create their own metaphors and then speak about them as if they were in the Bible too?
@FMF
When it comes to the matter of metaphors in the Bible, the question to those who have experienced God is "Well, which is more real?"
Marriage - a metaphor in the Bible
children - a metaphor in the Bible
father, mother, sunlight, air, water, rock, river, bread, etc. all these are used in the bible.
To the man who does consider a central reality of God behin ...[text shortened]... REAL - the metaphor of a vine tree or Christ and His saved people united with Him as one organism?"
I'll try again. Does the presence of metaphors in the Bible allow believers to create their own metaphors and then speak about them as if they were in the Bible too?
1.) Yes, believers may refer to metaphors in and not in the Bible. But he should indicate that created metaphors do not have the same weight as those inspired to be written in the canon of the Bible. That does not mean they are not important.
2.) Yes, believers may refer to metaphors which are not in the Bible.
3.) Careful believers will often indicate that they are referring to a metaphor which may not be in the Bible.
4.) Careful believers will also point out that a specific thing is not specifically mentioned as a metaphor but seems obviously to be so. Ie. The life of Joseph we are not told is specifically metaphorical but it is so similar to Jesus Christ to be so. However, though we are not explicitily told so in the Bible it seems rather obvious that Joseph's life very much points beyond to the life of Jesus Christ.
5.) Careful students of the Bible will take metaphors NOT found explicitely mentioned in the Bible on a case by case basis. IMO this is wiser then wholesale dismissal because it was not used in the Bible.
6.) Somewhat conversely, a careful student of the Bible will not casually accept EVERY metaphor simply because it is used in relation to God or Christ. Care should be taken to examine the effect of the usage of the metaphor. Does it edify? Does it exalt Christ? Does it increase one's love for Christ and dependence upon God? Or does it tend to make one aloof, indifferent.
7.) When a metaphor is questionable it is good to locate specific plain teaching in the Bible which may say pretty much the same thing as what the metaphor is used for. If there is no plain teaching indicating much the same matter, it is metaphor which may be best to avoid.
8.) One may not appreciate a metaphor at one stage of their spiritual growth but have it be more significant to them at a latter stage.
If I answered more than you asked, bear with it. Others might be benefitted by a fuller answer. I have tried to be careful and more thorough to address the issue within the length of a reasonably worded post.