1. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    16 Mar '12 20:44
    Any of you bible folk fancy a go at justifying or explaining the combined contents of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and 22:13-21?

    Non-bible-folk might also want to check it out for a giggle.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 Mar '12 21:25
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Any of you bible folk fancy a go at justifying or explaining the combined contents of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and 22:13-21?

    Non-bible-folk might also want to check it out for a giggle.
    Why is there a need for any Christian to justify or explain the contents of the Old Testament. Christians are followers of Christ. Christ's commandments are in the New Testament. Do you have a question about the commandments of Christ?
  3. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 21:41
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Why is there a need for any Christian to justify or explain the contents of the Old Testament. Christians are followers of Christ. Christ's commandments are in the New Testament. Do you have a question about the commandments of Christ?
    Bull, the bible clearly states that the laws of the OT still apply.
    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.

    KJV

    Matthew (sermon on the mount)
    5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in
    the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


    Genesis 17:19
    And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac:
    and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

    Exodus 12:14, 17, 24
    And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations;
    ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. ...
    And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread;
    for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt:
    therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever. ...
    And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

    Leviticus 23:14,21,31
    It shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations.

    Deuteronomy 4:8-9
    What nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? ...
    teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons.

    Deuteronomy 7:9
    Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations.

    Deuteronomy 11:1
    Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

    Deuteronomy 11:26-28
    Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God.

    1 Chronicles 16:15
    Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ... an everlasting covenant.

    Psalm 119:151-2
    Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

    Psalm 119:160
    Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13
    Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

    Malachi 4:4
    Remember ye the law of Moses.

    Luke 16:17
    It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.



    I have brought this...


    Deuteronomy 22:28-29

    King James Version (KJV)

    28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

    29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


    ... Up before and got no satisfactory answer.

    Which is unsurprising as there can be not satisfactory answer for this.
  4. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    16 Mar '12 21:42
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Why is there a need for any Christian to justify or explain the contents of the Old Testament. Christians are followers of Christ. Christ's commandments are in the New Testament. Do you have a question about the commandments of Christ?
    Not at the moment, no, but if I think of any I'll be sure to let you know.
  5. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 21:57
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Not at the moment, no, but if I think of any I'll be sure to let you know.
    Well there is always the fact that nowhere in the bible does it say slavery is a bad thing.
    (except perhaps for members of their own tribe, but it was ok to keep others as slaves)

    This is old or new testament.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm
  6. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 22:58
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Any of you bible folk fancy a go at justifying or explaining the combined contents of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and 22:13-21?

    Non-bible-folk might also want to check it out for a giggle.
    So what is your question about these verses?
  7. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
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    16 Mar '12 23:01
    Originally posted by galveston75
    So what is your question about these verses?
    It's contained in the first line. The sentence ends with one of these ?, we call them a 'question mark' here in England, i'm pretty sure they are universal throughout the english speaking world. But i could be wrong.
  8. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 23:22
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Why is there a need for any Christian to justify or explain the contents of the Old Testament. Christians are followers of Christ. Christ's commandments are in the New Testament. Do you have a question about the commandments of Christ?
    How are we all doing?
    The Commandments of Christ
    www.christadelphia.org/command.htm

    quote:

    The following is a list of commands which form the basis of our life in Christ. Most were spoken directly by Christ; many were added for clarity by the writers of the epistles.

    Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you (Matt. 5:44).
    Resist not evil: if a man smite thee on one cheek, turn to him the other also (Matt. 5:30-40).
    Avenge not yourselves: rather give place unto wrath: and suffer yourselves to be defrauded (Rom. 12:18, 19).
    If a man take away thy goods, ask them not again (Luke 6:29, 30).
    Agree with your adversary quickly, submitting even to wrong for the sake of peace (Matt. 5:25; 1 Cor. 6:7).
    Labor not to be rich: be ready to every good work, give to those who ask; relieve the afflicted (1 Tim. 6:8; Rom. 12:13; Heb. 13:16; James 1:27).
    Do not your alms before men: Let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth (Matt. 6:1-4).
    Recompense to no man evil for evil: overcome evil with good (Rom. 12:17).
    Bless them that curse you; let no cursing come out of your mouth (Matt. 5:44; Rom. 12:14).
    Render not evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrariwise, blessing (1 Pet. 3:9).
    Pray for them that despitefully use you and afflict you (Matt. 5:44).
    Grudge not: judge not: complain not: condemn not (James 5:9; Matt. 7:1).
    Put away anger, wrath, bitterness, and all evil speaking (Eph. 4:31; 1 Pet. 2:1).
    Confess your faults one to another (James 5:16).
    Be not conformed to this world: love not the world (Rom. 12:2; 1 John 2:15).
    Deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts. If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off (Titus 2:13; Matt. 5:30).
    Servants, be faithful, even to bad masters (Eph. 6:5-8).
    Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate (Rom. 12:16).
    Owe no man anything (Rom. 13:7,8).
    In case of sin (known or heard of) speak not of it to others, but tell the offending brother of the matter between thee and him alone, with a view to recovery (Matt. 18:15; Gal. 6:1).
    Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart (Matt. 22:37).
    Pray always; pray with brevity and simplicity; pray secretly (Luke 18:1; Matt. 6:7).
    In everything give thanks to God and recognize Him in all your ways (Eph. 5:20; Prov. 3:6).
    As you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them (Matt. 7:12).
    Take Christ for an example and follow in his steps (1 Pet. 2:21).
    Let Christ dwell in your heart by faith (Eph. 3:17).
    Esteem Christ more highly than all earthly things; yea, than your own life (Luke 14:26).
    Confess Christ freely before men (Luke 12:8).
    Beware lest the cares of life or the allurements of pleasure weaken his hold on your heart (Matt. 24:44).
    Love thy neighbor as thyself (Matt. 22:39).
    Exercise lordship over no one (Matt. 23:11).
    Seek not your own welfare only, nor bear your own burdens merely, but have regard to those of others (Phil. 2:4; Gal. 6:2).
    Let your light shine before men: hold forth the word of life. Do good to all men as ye have opportunity (Matt. 5:16; Phil. 2:16; Gal. 6:10).
    Be blameless and harmless, as the sons of God in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation (Phil. 2:15).
    Be gentle, meek, kind-hearted, compassionate, merciful, forgiving (2 Tim. 2:24; Titus 2:2; Eph. 4:32).
    Be sober, grave, sincere, temperate (Phil. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 5:8).
    Speak the truth every man with his neighbor: put away all lying (Eph. 4:25).
    Whatsoever ye do, do it heartily as unto the Lord, and not unto men (Col. 3:23).
    Be watchful, vigilant, brave, joyful, courteous, and strong (1 Cor. 16:13; Phil. 4:4; 1 Thess. 5:6-10).
    Be clothed with humility; be patient toward all (Col. 3:12; Rom. 12:12).
    Follow peace with all men (Heb. 12:14).
    Sympathize in the joys and sorrows of others (Rom. 12:15).
    Follow after whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous, and praiseful (Phil. 4:8).
    Refrain utterly from adultery, fornication, uncleanness, drunkenness, covetousness, wrath, strife, sedition, hatred, emulation, boasting, vainglory, envy, jesting, and foolish talking (Eph. 5:3,4).
    Whatever you do, consider the effect of your action on the honor of God's name among men. Do all to the glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31; 3:17).
    Reckon yourselves dead to all manner of sin. Henceforth live not to yourselves, but to him who died for you, and rose again (Rom. 6-11; 2 Cor. 5:15).
    Be zealous of good works, always abounding in the work of the Lord, wearying not in well doing (Titus 2:14; Gal. 6:9).
    Speak evil of no man (Titus 3:2).
    Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly (Col. 3:16).
    Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt (Col. 3:8; 4:6).
    Obey rules; submit to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake (Titus 3:1).
    Be holy in all manner of conversation (1 Pet. 1:15, 16).
    Give no occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully (1 Tim. 5:14).

    unquote.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    16 Mar '12 23:35
    Originally posted by JS357
    How are we all doing?
    The Commandments of Christ
    www.christadelphia.org/command.htm

    quote:

    The following is a list of commands which form the basis of our life in Christ. Most were spoken directly by Christ; many were added for clarity by the writers of the epistles.

    Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you (Matt. 5:44).
    Resist not ...[text shortened]... 16).
    Give no occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully (1 Tim. 5:14).

    unquote.
    All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This is why we all need
    God's grace. For none of us are righteous. It is our belief and faith in the only
    true God that is counted for righteousness.
  10. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 23:37
    Originally posted by JS357
    How are we all doing?
    The Commandments of Christ
    www.christadelphia.org/command.htm

    quote:

    The following is a list of commands which form the basis of our life in Christ. Most were spoken directly by Christ; many were added for clarity by the writers of the epistles.

    Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you (Matt. 5:44).
    Resist not ...[text shortened]... 16).
    Give no occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully (1 Tim. 5:14).

    unquote.
    Nothing in there that prohibits slavery.

    In fact it expressly states...

    Servants, be faithful, even to bad masters (Eph. 6:5-8)

    servants in those days being slaves.

    So Christianity not only doesn't condemn but condones slavery.
  11. Joined
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    16 Mar '12 23:476 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Bull, the bible clearly states that the laws of the OT still apply.
    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.

    [b]KJV

    [i]
    Matthew (sermon on the mount)
    5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the atisfactory answer.

    Which is unsurprising as there can be not satisfactory answer for this.[/b]
    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.
    [/i]


    Out of all the passages that you quoted, why did you not include Jeremiah's prophecy of God promising the Jews to make "a new covenant ?"

    THE PROMISE OF A NEW COVENANT -


    "Indeed, days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

    Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by their hand to bring them out from Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was their Husband, declares Jehovah.

    But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Jehovah: I will put My law within them and write it upon their hearts; and I will be God to them, and they will be My people. " (Jeremiah 31:31-33)


    I would like to quote down to verse 34. But this is sufficient to prove that God promised to make a NEW COVENANT. This NEW COVENANT would be "NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ..."

    You went through the Bible to hunt for reasons to lay at Christian's feet the obligation to perhaps stone a woman caught in adultery. You sought to establish that the Law of Moses is still binding upon the biblical theists. But strangly, you overlooked God's word about the "NEW COVENANT" pointing to the New Testament in Jesus Christ.


    I notice that when skeptics like yourself find passages to reinforce your unbelieving and skeptical views, everything in the bible is so very clear to you. When passages in context do not bulster your skeptical views then you fall back on the Bible being obscure, contradictory, and who can know it ?

    At any rate you conveniently overlooked the prediction of the new covenant while combing through to find reasons to place Christans under the Law of Moses.
  12. Joined
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    17 Mar '12 00:08
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    It's contained in the first line. The sentence ends with one of these ?, we call them a 'question mark' here in England, i'm pretty sure they are universal throughout the english speaking world. But i could be wrong.
    I think I asked him the question. In this country it's called being rude to butt in.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    17 Mar '12 00:09
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Why is there a need for any Christian to justify or explain the contents of the Old Testament. Christians are followers of Christ. Christ's commandments are in the New Testament. Do you have a question about the commandments of Christ?
    Lighten up, man.
    I think his OP was perfectly reasonable, in fact I've seen nothing but perfectly reasonable and measured responses (and threads) from avalanchethecat.

    If you dont want to partake then dont.

    Sheeese...

    Are you sure you're not confusing him with RJHinds or some other one like that?


    And so far it seems we have lengthy responses from non-christians, with the exception of jaywill.

    This is not the first time I have defended a brother who has not deserved such treatment.
  14. Joined
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    17 Mar '12 00:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.
    [/i]


    Out of all the passages that you quoted, why did you not include Jeremiah's prophecy of God promising the Jews to make [b]"a new covenant ?"

    ...[text shortened]... nant while combing through to find reasons to place Christans under the Law of Moses.[/b]
    Good reply....
  15. Joined
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    17 Mar '12 00:121 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.
    [/i]


    Out of all the passages that you quoted, why did you not include Jeremiah's prophecy of God promising the Jews to make [b]"a new covenant ?"

    nant while combing through to find reasons to place Christans under the Law of Moses.[/b]
    1 Chronicles 16:15
    Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations ...
    an everlasting covenant.


    It is either everlasting or it isn't.


    If there is a new covenant that replaces the old one then the above was wrong.

    which means the bible is contradictory and is not inerrant.


    If the above is right, then the old covenant still applies and any talk of a new covenant is wrong.

    Which means the bible is contradictory and is not inerrant.



    And also to my main point which you don't address...

    Also the laws of the OT are supposed to be the laws handed down by your god and/or his
    prophet which make them
    relevant to any discussion of the nature of your god and religion.
    [/i]



    I don't care if your (imaginary) god created a 'new covenant' or not.

    It is still the same (imaginary) god that made the 'old covenant'.

    So in looking at what your god is like it is completely valid and reasonable to look at the contents of
    the old covenant.


    Also I would point out that there are many Christian denominations, some of which still claim that the OT
    still holds.

    So while YOU and YOUR denomination may have made your mind up about these issues, Christianity as a
    whole is divided on this, and many other issues.


    Also I have no trouble finding a multitude of objectionable things in the new testament without any reference
    to the OT.

    Not least of which is your gods still being a petty egomaniac who threatens to torture anyone who doesn't bow
    and scrape before him to an eternity of fiery torment (or whatever).

    The fact that JC (allegedly) said some nice stuff you can put on a bumper sticker doesn't mean I can't find other
    stuff that is abominable. (and without any trouble whatsoever)
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