1. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    27 Dec '07 12:39
    Here's something that i've never quite understood about devil worship: what's the incentive? God bribes people with the prospect of eternity in heaven, which is supposed to be a pleasant place. Whats in it for devil worshippers - an eternity in hell? that's supposed to be something to avoid. Or are all the benefits earthly benefits - in which case, it seems stupid because no finite life on earth, no matter how good, could outweigh an eternity in hell. I take it though that these people aren't (all) stupid. So, what's the deal?
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    27 Dec '07 14:21
    earthly pleasure, and more earthly pleasure
  3. Subscribermdhall
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    27 Dec '07 14:35
    If you are making deals with "things" you cannot see, smell, touch, taste, or hear; who cares what you think you're getting?
  4. Donationrwingett
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    27 Dec '07 14:36
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    Here's something that i've never quite understood about devil worship: what's the incentive? God bribes people with the prospect of eternity in heaven, which is supposed to be a pleasant place. Whats in it for devil worshippers - an eternity in hell? that's supposed to be something to avoid. Or are all the benefits earthly benefits - in which case, it se ...[text shortened]... nity in hell. I take it though that these people aren't (all) stupid. So, what's the deal?
    From Wikipedia:

    LaVeyan Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by Anton LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, social Darwinism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality, with influence from Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, while its rituals and magic draw heavily from occultists such as Aleister Crowley. Borrowing Crowley's terminology, its adherents define Satanism as a "Left-Hand Path" religion, rejecting traditional "Right-Hand Path" religions such as Christianity for their perceived denial of life and emphasis on guilt and abstinence. Unlike Theistic Satanism, which is rejected by the Church of Satan as Christian heresy rather than Satanism, it does not literally worship Satan, but rather uses "Satan" as a symbol for people's natural inner desires.[1]
    Anton LaVey established Satanism's first and largest religious organization, the Church of Satan, in 1966, and codified Satanic beliefs and practices in the Satanic Bible in 1969. According to the Church of Satan, there are many Satanists around the world, including both members and non-members. It rejects the legitimacy of any other organizations of Satanists, dubbing them reverse-Christians and pseudo-Satanists. Although exact numbers have never been released, it has been estimated that the number of adherents is in the tens of thousands.
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    27 Dec '07 14:381 edit
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    Here's something that i've never quite understood about devil worship: what's the incentive? God bribes people with the prospect of eternity in heaven, which is supposed to be a pleasant place. Whats in it for devil worshippers - an eternity in hell? that's supposed to be something to avoid. Or are all the benefits earthly benefits - in which case, it se ...[text shortened]... nity in hell. I take it though that these people aren't (all) stupid. So, what's the deal?
    I have observed that some tyes of people get a rush out the prospect of revolting against God. It is the ultimate ego trip.

    They think "Wow. Think of it. I am standing against God." There is some kind of perverse gratification in this.


    Incidently, heaven is not the eternal destiny of the saved. And I don't see God bribing anyone to do anything.

    I don't see your parents "bribing" you to be born. Nor do I see God bribing anyone to be born again. Presumably we are the ones who want life and want it abundantly.
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    27 Dec '07 14:442 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    From Wikipedia:

    LaVeyan Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by Anton LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, social Darwinism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality, with influence from Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, while its rituals and magic draw heavily from occultists such as Aleister Crowley. Borrowing Crowley's terminolo , it has been estimated that the number of adherents is in the tens of thousands.
    The one possibly good thing Aton LaVay did was tell the truth to all the practicers of magic, white magic, so-called "good" magic, "good" witches, sorcerers, and all who dabble in the occult, in essence - LaVay said:

    "Hey you guys, You're all getting your powers from the same source - Satan. Don't kid yourselves." (paraphrased)

    In that aspect he did a service to the Christian church. They wouldn't believe it if Christians told them that.
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    27 Dec '07 14:471 edit
    In other words Aton LaVay would admit to the people that Harry Potter gets his stuff from Satan.

    They wouldn't believe it if Christians told them.
  8. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    27 Dec '07 16:04
    Originally posted by stoker
    earthly pleasure, and more earthly pleasure
    yeah, but as i already said, to take, say, 50 or 60 years of earthly pleasure in exchange for an eternity in hell would be stupid.
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    27 Dec '07 16:083 edits
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    yeah, but as i already said, to take, say, 50 or 60 years of earthly pleasure in exchange for an eternity in hell would be stupid.
    One moment of fellowship with Jesus is worth more than 50 years of the fleeting and decptive enjoyment of sin.

    What is more valuable than the love of Jesus?

    What is more precious than the love of Jesus?

    What in the entire univere can one compare to the value of Jesus Christ?

    I have found that nothing the is more precious than knowing Christ.
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    27 Dec '07 16:12
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    yeah, but as i already said, to take, say, 50 or 60 years of earthly pleasure in exchange for an eternity in hell would be stupid.
    You have to bear in mind that the folks that call themselves Satanists really don't believe that they are going to spend eternity in hell.
  11. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    27 Dec '07 16:13
    Originally posted by jaywill
    One [b]moment of fellowship with Jesus is worth more than 50 years of the fleeting and decptive enjoyment of sin.

    What is more valuable than the love of Jesus?

    What is more precious than the love of Jesus?

    What in the entire univere can one compare to the value of Jesus Christ?

    I have found that nothing the is more precious than knowing Christ.[/b]
    you know that bit in the bible when JC is on the cross and he says 'father, why have you abandoned me'? i think that's the moment he stared into the abyss and realised that, after all, there is nothing out there, nothing after death. it was a cry of fear and despair, and disappointment.
  12. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    27 Dec '07 16:16
    Originally posted by Ullr
    You have to bear in mind that the folks that call themselves Satanists really don't believe that they are going to spend eternity in hell.
    i guess not, but what do they actually think will become of them? eternal life on earth or something?
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    27 Dec '07 16:17
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    you know that bit in the bible when JC is on the cross and he says 'father, why have you abandoned me'? i think that's the moment he stared into the abyss and realised that, after all, there is nothing out there, nothing after death. it was a cry of fear and despair, and disappointment.
    Really Iron Monkey?? Is that what you think ?

    You see I have never had the experience of being separated from the Father after an eternity of oneness with Him in eternal love. So I cannot think what it must have been like.

    But some people say that at that moment He experienced the equivalance of eternal separation from God for all of mankind.

    He cried that for you so that you would never have to cry that. Such love He had for you.
  14. Standard memberIron Monkey
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    27 Dec '07 16:27
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Really Iron Monkey?? Is that what you think ?

    You see I have never had the experience of being separated from the Father after an eternity of oneness with Him in eternal love. So I cannot think what it must have been like.

    But some people say that at that moment He experienced the equivalance of eternal separation from God for all of mankind.

    He cried that for you so that you would never have to cry that. Such love He had for you.
    if it went down as told in the bible and he said that at that moment, then that's how i would interpret it, yes - but i interpret it that way partly because i am not a believer. naturally, devout believers will interpret it differently, as you have.

    but ask yourself: why do i believe all this? all you have is an ancient book (and there are many ancient books with competing accounts of the truth, so what's special about this one), and a kind of inner 'gut feeling'. that's not grounds for rational belief imho, and that's why i don't believe. a gut feeling is not evidence of anything.
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    27 Dec '07 16:29
    Originally posted by Iron Monkey
    i guess not, but what do they actually think will become of them? eternal life on earth or something?
    I'm not really sure what their beliefs on the afterlife are. Most of them probably think you simply cease to exist.
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