1. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 11:53
    Tomorrow evening on BBC2 at 1900 bst is a program entitled "Did Darwin Kill God?"

    Essentially, the answer posited is "No", which I agree with (my atheism is not solely based on Evolution and I fully comprehend that nothing can logically kill God, he is as indestructible as the fairies at the bottom of my garden).

    Just thought some people on this forum might be interested in it.

    --- Penguin

    Here is the write-up from the BBC website:

    There are some who believe that Darwin's theory of evolution has weakened religion, fuelled in part by Richard Dawkins' publishing phenomenon The God Delusion. Conor Cunningham argues that nothing could be further from the truth.

    Cunningham is a firm believer in the theory of evolution, but he is also a Christian. He believes that the clash between Darwin and God has been hijacked by extremists - fundamentalist believers who reject evolution on one side, and fundamentalist atheists on the other. Cunningham attempts to overturn what he believes are widely held but mistaken assumptions in the debate between religion and evolution.

    He travels to the Middle East where he shows that from the very outset, Christianity warned against literal readings of the biblical story of creation. In Britain, he reveals that, at the time, Darwin's theory of evolution was welcomed by the Anglican and Catholic Churches. Instead, he argues that the conflict between Darwin and God was manufactured by American creationists in the 20th century for reasons that had very little to do with science and religion and a great deal to do with politics and morality.

    Finally, he comes face to face with some of the most eminent evolutionary biologists, geneticists and philosophers of our time to examine whether the very latest advances in evolutionary theory do in fact kill God.

    More about the programme

    This programme is part of the BBC’s Darwin Season and arose out of the realisation that it would touch on issues raised by Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion. The publishing phenomenon has fuelled a widespread perception that the theory of evolution makes belief in God redundant, even perhaps perverse. But how compelling was that argument? It was clear that many Christians have easily been able to reconcile their belief in God with the theory of evolution. How was this possible? This was the question we wanted to explore and so we invited Dr Conor Cunningham, a Christian but also an eminent philosopher and theologian from the Centre of Theology and Philosophy at the University of Nottingham to show how it was possible to believe in both Darwin and God. Cunningham has just completed a new book, Evolution: Darwin's Pious Idea, to be published in the autumn, so he was ideally placed to explore this question. His argument is that we have been witnessing an unnecessary cultural war between religion and evolution that is actually damaging to both religion and science. Cunningham reveals that since the early days, mainstream Christianity’s view of God and Creation has not been literal. The idea of reading the Book of Genesis literally is essentially a 20th century American phenomenon that had very little to do with science and religion and a great deal to do with the morality and politics of the time.

    Jean Claude Bragard
    Executive Producer
  2. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 12:00
    Originally posted by Penguin
    Tomorrow evening on BBC2 at 1900 bst is a program entitled "Did Darwin Kill God?"

    Essentially, the answer posited is "No", which I agree with (my atheism is not solely based on Evolution and I fully comprehend that nothing can logically kill God, he is as indestructible as the fairies at the bottom of my garden).
    If god is so easily killed, then he doesn't deserve being a god.
    If the christian faith is so weak, then it doesn't deserve any followers.

    On the contrary, evolution is the greatest part of the creation. Deny evolution, and you deny god altogether. It's like denying da Vinci's MonaLisa, or Beethoven's fifth. If the creation of animals are made mechanically as the creationists propose, then it has no more value than the watchmaker's watch.

    Evolution is a great discovery of the plan of god. Darwin has revealed the greatness of god. Biology was, from then on, not only mechanical, but in fact evolving!
  3. Cape Town
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    30 Mar '09 12:441 edit
    Although I fully agree that Darwins theory in no way weakens theism in general, it obviously does weaken some aspects of some theistic beliefs.
    However, I find most theists that do accept evolution and try to convince creationists of that fact to be somewhat hypocritical. If you criticize others for believing in things because they clearly contradict science then you should stop believing in such things yourself, yet such theists do not approach their own irrational beliefs with the same standards. If on the other hand you feel it is OK to hold irrational beliefs then why not leave the creationists alone?

    On the whole, science in general weakens theism in general.
  4. Cape Town
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    30 Mar '09 12:47
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    If god is so easily killed, then he doesn't deserve being a god.
    That is a surprisingly popular argument. It is very similar to the age old "if God isn't what I believe he is then I won't believe in him".
    Surely you simply want to know the truth, and whether or not God deserves to be God should be totally and utterly irrelevant?
  5. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 13:15
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Although I fully agree that Darwins theory in no way weakens theism in general, it obviously does weaken some aspects of some theistic beliefs.
    However, I find most theists that do accept evolution and try to convince creationists of that fact to be somewhat hypocritical. If you criticize others for believing in things because they clearly contradict sci ...[text shortened]... not leave the creationists alone?

    On the whole, science in general weakens theism in general.
    ah but here you are wrong. and you have used this argument countless times before. it is one thing to be a creationist and believe in things that obviously contradict known science. and it is another thing to be a liberal christian, muslim, etc and believe in a deity that doesn't contradict anything. evolution simply proves how god created the universe, not who created the universe. and although i am not performing science by believing in god, and though i accept that someone believing in the flying spaghetti monster is perhaps just as right as me (minus the historic facts that support some christian concepts) i am not contradicting any scientific theories. the god hypothesis may not be needed in scientific theories but that doesn't mean i am contradicting anything other than the scientific method.

    "On the whole, science in general weakens theism in general."
    incorrect. they have no connection to one another so how can one weaken the other? it does however weaken the creationists which you hold to be on the same step as us, the liberal religious people.
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    30 Mar '09 13:24
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That is a surprisingly popular argument. It is very similar to the age old "if God isn't what I believe he is then I won't believe in him".
    Surely you simply want to know the truth, and whether or not God deserves to be God should be totally and utterly irrelevant?
    not really true. how god is is very relevant. i would not worship a god that demands the sacrifice and cannibalism of children. (or humans for that matter).

    "if God isn't what I believe he is then I won't believe in him" isn't very logical. if we form a picture about god, then who will tell you that he is not like that? if he brings proof you cannot choose not to believe in that god anymore than you can choose not to believe in dinosaurs. you may choose not to worship him even if he is real. however if a prophet tries to change what you believe god to be like you may choose to not believe in that prophet's deity but in the one you orginally believed in. basically, when confronted with two deities, each of whom have equal chance of being, you should choose the one most similar to your morality, or renounce theism altogether and become an atheist.

    (i may have complicated unnecessarily this post. ask for clarifications if needed)
  7. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 15:18
    Originally posted by Penguin
    Tomorrow evening on BBC2 at 1900 bst is a program entitled "Did Darwin Kill God?"

    Essentially, the answer posited is "No", which I agree with (my atheism is not solely based on Evolution and I fully comprehend that nothing can logically kill God, he is as indestructible as the fairies at the bottom of my garden).

    Just thought some people on this forum ...[text shortened]... o with the morality and politics of the time.

    Jean Claude Bragard
    Executive Producer
    Er....um....God is still alive. At least you must conceede this point in terms of his still having followers that far outnumber atheists in the world.

    Sorry to break the news....😛
  8. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 16:12
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That is a surprisingly popular argument. It is very similar to the age old "if God isn't what I believe he is then I won't believe in him".
    Surely you simply want to know the truth, and whether or not God deserves to be God should be totally and utterly irrelevant?
    Do you mean that if god is a weak god he is still worth to be the one we should worship? And if we don't, what can he do if he is so weak? Nah, that's not the god for me to believe in.

    This is a surprisingly popular argument. "Don't talk bad about my god, because if you do, then I will whine."
  9. Pepperland
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    30 Mar '09 16:341 edit
    Its threads like this that make me stay away from the spirituality forum.

    You can't possibly think that God is obsolete because of evolution, God and indeed any other supernatural being is very complex and you can't just say it doesn't exist because you didn't see it.

    I don't know if there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, maybe there are, maybe there aren't, but Im not going to say there aren't simply because I haven't seen them.
  10. Felicific Forest
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    30 Mar '09 17:29
    Originally posted by Penguin
    Tomorrow evening on BBC2 at 1900 bst is a program entitled "Did Darwin Kill God?"

    Essentially, the answer posited is "No", which I agree with (my atheism is not solely based on Evolution and I fully comprehend that nothing can logically kill God, he is as indestructible as the fairies at the bottom of my garden).

    Just thought some people on this forum ...[text shortened]... o with the morality and politics of the time.

    Jean Claude Bragard
    Executive Producer
    "Instead, he argues that the conflict between Darwin and God was manufactured by American creationists in the 20th century for reasons that had very little to do with science and religion and a great deal to do with politics and morality."

    I have stated numerous times here at RHP that the continuing debate between creationists and evolutionists in the United States is in essence an ideological and political debate. Both sides believe that if evolution is true than God can not exist ... and that's why the creationists fight evolution and evolutionists fight creationism ... I guess the show will continue for awhile ... until the creationists have lost their political influence in American politics ... and then of course the evolutionists will claim they have proven that God does not exist. Oh well .....
  11. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 17:311 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo

    I don't know if there are fairies at the bottom of my garden, maybe there are, maybe there aren't, but Im not going to say there aren't simply because I haven't seen them.
    What would you put your money on?

    I.e. If someone asked you whether you believe there are fairies at the bottom of your garden, what would be your answer?

    but I do agree with you that the theory of evolution doesn't mean that god doesn't exist, but it does contradict certain aspects of some religious beliefs.
  12. Felicific Forest
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    30 Mar '09 17:331 edit
    ... and again the debate derails into a discussion whether God exists or not ... and there they come ... the Fairies ... and the Flying Spaghetti Monster flies again ... The Capricorn in my Toilet will be making his appearance very soon I guess.
  13. Joined
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    30 Mar '09 17:37
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Both sides believe that if evolution is true than God can not exist ... .

    That's not true though. There are a great number of people who accept evolution and believe in god. Science and evolutionary theory doesn't speak of whether god exists or not.
  14. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
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    30 Mar '09 18:08
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    ... and again the debate derails into a discussion whether God exists or not ... and there they come ... the Fairies ... and the Flying Spaghetti Monster flies again ... The Capricorn in my Toilet will be making his appearance very soon I guess.
    Do you also hear inexplicable gurglings as soon as your back is turned?
  15. Account suspended
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    30 Mar '09 18:291 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    If god is so easily killed, then he doesn't deserve being a god.
    If the christian faith is so weak, then it doesn't deserve any followers.

    On the contrary, evolution is the greatest part of the creation. Deny evolution, and you deny god altogether. It's like denying da Vinci's MonaLisa, or Beethoven's fifth. If the creation of animals are made mechani he greatness of god. Biology was, from then on, not only mechanical, but in fact evolving!
    Deny evolution, and you deny god altogether

    Im still waiting from months ago for you and Zapansy to produce one iota of evidence that God used the evolutionary process. If it is a product of your mind and reasoning, then where is the thought process that leads us to this conclusion? for I verily proclaim that it has NO BASIS, say it again, NO BASIS in Science nor Religion! pah! I smack you on the face with my gauntlet and demand you either make with the readies, retract the statement, meet me at dawn with pistols or French foils!, your choice, otherwise produce the goodies, regards Robbie.
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