Originally posted by FMF Do you think this verse somewhat undermines the notion (often bandied about by Christians who drink ~ I was one of them) that alcohol "in moderation" is OK, as opposed to getting "drunk" being not OK ~ leaving the devout drinker happy to define "in moderation" as per necessary? 😉
Originally posted by FMF I'm just interested in the verse as it is written.
And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!”
(John 2:10 NKJV)
Notice this translation says when the guests have well drunk. I believe the following translation makes it more clear:
and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
(John 2:10 NASB)
Having drunk freely does not have to imply they are all overly intoxicated with alcohol as you seem to think. I would think that some guests drink more wine than others with there meal and want some more. It does not have to mean they are "drunk" with alcohol from the wine.
Originally posted by RBHILL All sermons should be 61 minutes. In china and Africa they preach all day. Why be like us Americans and go for a 20 minute message?
Serious student span of attention and concentration on biblical passages being taught generally lasts about 45 minutes.
Originally posted by FMF What about all the translations that are inconvenient to you and your chosen interpretation?
There are just a few of those and those translations do not attempt to give literal translations of the Greek text as do the KJV, NKJV, and NASB.
For example:
and said unto him, Every man at the beginning sets forth the good wine, and when they are well satisfied, then that which is worse; but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Obviousl they could not have been well satisfied, as this version has it, if any of them were asking for more wine.
Originally posted by RJHinds There are just a few of those and those translations do not attempt to give literal translations of the Greek text as do the KJV, NKJV, and NASB.
So this is one of those cases where, yet again, it all comes down to what someone-on-the-internet who just so happens to reckon he understands "the original Greek" claims "the original Greek" says ?
Originally posted by FMF So this is one of those cases where, yet again, it all comes down to what someone-on-the-internet who just so happens to reckon he understands "the original Greek" claims "the original Greek" says ?
You are free to quote your Greek authorities to prove your point if you wish. 😏
Originally posted by RBHILL Not that you would but I can see you didn't listen to it. You could easily listen to it while playing live chess. That is when I listen to most of the sermons or a youtube video. When an important part comes up pause it until your game is over or resign and focus on the message.
Originally posted by RJHinds Not a teetotaller, just one that is intelligent enough to know what moderation and satisfied means.
So now the list of extra-Biblical things applied to this passage grows. It's fascinating. The wine was a "...vintage [that] was the finest ever served... before or since."
These dissatisfied wedding guests demanding more wine were not drunk and presumably were still not drunk after they drank all the wine Jesus created.
They had been drinking wine but by asking for more it demonstrated that "...they could not have been well satisfied" and not something else that might reasonably have been the case at a wedding party where the wine ran out and then there was more wine.
And they were drinking in "moderation" because they were "intelligent enough" to do that.
And, finally, this story somehow proves that Jesus could "give the wine the appearance of age" which was a kind of fakery that could also have been used to trick virtually the whole of mankind into thinking the world is billions of years old.
Originally posted by FMF So now the list of extra-Biblical things applied to this passage grows. It's fascinating. The wine was a "...vintage [that] was the finest ever served... before or since."
These dissatisfied wedding guests demanding more wine were not drunk and presumably were still not drunk after they drank all the wine Jesus created.
They had been drinking wine but by ...[text shortened]... ally the whole of mankind into thinking the world is billions of years old.
Fascinating. 🙂
You just don't seem to get it. That is why I hang around to instruct those such as you that need my help..
18 Jan '15 11:47
Did Jesus Make or Drink Alcoholic Wine?
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