11 Jan 11
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this forum there are many persons who do just that......put forward all manner of untruth......and say Oh I believe this and thats all that matters.
Actually I am not the least bit interested in debating......because you cannot debate truth, but you can only present truth.
To debate truth, you would have to have some person rejecting truth, and what sane person would do that.
On the other hand you can discuss truth, so as to become clear in understanding.
Since this is the spirituality forum, God and religion are discussed, but to discuss any subject there must be an authority.
An authority is the guide or the place of reference.....just like if we where to discuss cricket, the cricket rule book would be the reference, and anything not supported by the cricket book would be under scrutiny.
The reference for discussing God and religion, is the Vedanta Sutra, Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita and many others coming from pure devotees of the Lord.......and there is no other reference books, unless you go to substitute religion for your referencing.
Discussing God and religion outside of the reference of Vedanta Sutra, is almost impossible, because the Vedanta Sutra is the authority on all things spiritual.
Many persons are referencing literature that is not authorized, and therefore have much error in their teachings and beliefs.
Their unauthorized scripture may say many true things, but because it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by vishvahetuGame 3452734
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this f ...[text shortened]... it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by vishvahetuI read the Authorised King James - so what's your point?
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this f ...[text shortened]... it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
Oh of course your point is that because you think in shades of arbitrary black and white and articulate yourself in terms of "truth" and "untruth" or "sanity" and "insanity" or "dishonesty" and "honesty" you polarise every other person here into groups of "those who agree with me" and "those who don't" - behaving ingratiatingly sycophantic to the former and abusive to the later (the later being by far the larger of the two).
Can't you just sit down quietly somewhere and consider how to win people around through accepting that even if they are incorrect, they are completely entitled to their opinion which is probably held by them with a degree of heartfelt sincerity; and the very very least you can do is to NOT call then "mad" "dishonest" "raving" or any other repetitive insults you throw at anyone who does not lie at your feet, slain by the wave of transcendent wisdom that has just befallen their computer screen via your keyboard.
Or at least try to engage in debate...
Just asking.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by vishvahetu
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this f ...[text shortened]... it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
Stick a bit of this in your pipe.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by divegeesterWhat a lovely post.
I read the [b]Authorised King James - so what's your point?
Oh of course your point is that because you think in shades of arbitrary black and white and articulate yourself in terms of "truth" and "untruth" or "sanity" and "insanity" or "dishonesty" and "honesty" you polarise every other person here into groups of "those who agree with me" and "th ...[text shortened]... our keyboard.
Or at least try to engage in debate...
Just asking.[/b]
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by Proper KnobJust looking for the album, £16 on Amazon and £8 on itunes; I like to own the CD being a bit old school. What to do...
They're called 'Long Distance Calling' from Germany.
Great band, discovered them a month ago.
Anything's got to be better then this wally's usual ramblings.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThe other sellers on Amazon have it at £8.
Just looking for the album, £16 on Amazon and £8 on itunes; I like to own the CD being a bit old school. What to do...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B002QAQ9U2/ref=sr_1_2_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1294788243&sr=8-2&condition=new
Job done.
11 Jan 11
Originally posted by vishvahetu"To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest."
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this f ...[text shortened]... it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
Learned that in romper room.
12 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuAfter the last thread you started and the subsequent negative replies, I'm surprised anyone even responded. Mind you at least half of these responses were not even about your op.
To put forward untruth as truth is dishonest, and to reject truth is dishonest.
In a debate, say at the national level....there are rules, and one of the rules is not to speak untruth.
Imagine a debate at the national level, where everyone is just saying any untrue statement....it wouldn't endure, and the mediator would stop the debate.
In this f ...[text shortened]... it says many untrue things as well, it misdirects the person away from the true spiritual life.
Ah Vishva, Vishva. What are we going to do about you?
-After I mentioned in your other thread that perhaps the responders were being a bit mean to you, Agerg and Zahlanzi had a nice humorous exchange that I think highlighted the reasons why people have a problem with the truth being dictated by you.
So you start another thread called "dishonesty".
First of all is dishonesty the same as being ingnorant? I think not. However you level the charge of dishonesty at many here, who are perhaps not familiar with the Vedas. They are hardly being dishonest. And like others have pointed out, why should anyone listen to your truth? Why not jaywills? After all you both have long winding posts, often with long answers when a short "yes" or "no" or short satement would've sufficed.
Also on authority, I cant see any real authority on anything unless it copmes from the person themselves. A persons convictions may coincide with scriptures or bibles/sutras/vedas, but the authority comes from within.
I am always wary of any outside authority on anything, ever!!
12 Jan 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelWe can leave the Vedas out of it, and we can not even mention God.....because many points of truth "are a given" for honest persons.
After the last thread you started and the subsequent negative replies, I'm surprised anyone even responded. Mind you at least half of these responses were not even about your op.
Ah Vishva, Vishva. What are we going to do about you?
-After I mentioned in your other thread that perhaps the responders were being a bit mean to you, Agerg and Zahlanzi ...[text shortened]... ority comes from within.
I am always wary of any outside authority on anything, ever!!
The fact that dead matter cannot animate its self, stands alone on the basis of science, rational, logic, common, sense and even observation. ( no mention of the Vedas)
Dishonest persons will say that dead matter can bring itself to life......its the pinnacle of dishonesty.
Dishonest persons calling themselves Christians, will say God enjoys a good animal slaughter.....but once again forget the Vedas, because any sane person knows that the person on the bonafide spiritual path ,becomes sensitive to all the life around him/her..... and could never take part in killing.
Dishonest persons even say "thou shalt not kill" ........ means you can kill.
....its all nonsense.
12 Jan 11
Originally posted by vishvahetuSo many truths are just like common sense, right?
We can leave the Vedas out of it, and we can not even mention God.....because many points of truth "are a given" for honest persons.
The fact that dead matter cannot animate its self, stands alone on the basis of science, rational, logic, common, sense and even observation. ( no mention of the Vedas)
Dishonest persons will say that dead matter can ...[text shortened]... ns even say "thou shalt not kill" ........ means you can kill.
....its all nonsense.
I understand that.
You still come across as a fundamental theist type. I know you source great refrence material (the Vedas), but its all in the way you interpret it.
So you are like the christians in this sense. You both say that your holy books contain the truth about life, and that one can read the truth for themselves from their respective books.
But I say that it is still only an opinion.
Not everyone has the same interpreatation of the bible or the vedas.
You still need to express an opnion regarding these truths, so no one is really in agreement, and you may have the best scource3 book of them alll, but if you cant interpret it correctly, then it doesn't matter how true it is.
So. Fristly you need to have an inner conviction about that which you talk about, (you seem real convinced 🙂 ), then you need to appreciate the the framework for any type of universal truth is going to be paradoxical.
It is the nature of reality. So I'm not saying that you, or any of the christians here are wring, per se, I'm saying that your views are limited when you present them in a linear,one-size-fits-all fashion.
Also you need to tailor your arguements to the individual who you are talking to. Understanding others points of view/orientation is a prerequisite for presenting them with universal truths. (I know you are just presenting the truth as you see it, but really, you need to meet people half way, imo, to actually get anything through to them)