Originally posted by karoly aczel
Thank you for your views.
Very strong they are, as always🙂
I'm at heartened to hear you put forward your version of how we are one with god and Jesus.
Although , because the the nature of man is dark and the nature of JC is that which is above that of man, there is still inherent division in this view, despite the rosy painting of this union.
eath, and not here and now while we are still alive.
(Do I more or less have you right?)
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I'm at heartened to hear you put forward your version of how we are one with god and Jesus.
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Don't misunderstand me though. We are not born naturally into this relationship. We must be
regenerated by receiving Christ to enter into this process.
Regeneration is the entrance. Being born anew is the entrance not being born naturally the first time. Do you see the difference ?
"But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name.
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12,13) [/b]
The process begins when we
receive Christ into our hearts.
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Although , because the the nature of man is dark and the nature of JC is that which is above that of man, there is still inherent division in this view, despite the rosy painting of this union.
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Christ terminates the old man. This is why Paul said
"I have been CRUCIFIED with Christ". In His death He not only died a REDEMPTIVE death. He also died a TERMINATING death. What plagues us He carried up to the cross in Himself and crucified it.
This putting to death old nature is in the Holy Spirit. As we drink in the Holy Spirit this terminating action operates in us.
This is why the symbol of baptism is so apt. It really represents the whole of the normal Christian life. We are buried with Christ and raised with Him. His death becomes something we can utilize, channel, and direct to "kill off" many germs that plague us. And in doing so we are raised to walk in newness of life in Him.
There is not only the germination. There is the termination. I have been crucified with Christ. We by the Spirit put to death the practices of the body. His death as well as His resurrection is applicable and available for our being in the Holy Spirit.
His death becomes precious to us, not only for its redemptive aspect, but for its terminating power too.
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I strongly believe that we must convince ourselves that the christian "truth" that we fall short of JC's example and other such notions of the impossibility of being like JC is erroneous.
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What God wants is for His Son to live on the earth AGAIN. But this time IN you and IN me.
We may desire God to grandstand in some way displaying the risen Christ on YouTube and CNN for all the world to witness. But God' plan is that Christ, in His resurrected state, would live again on the earth out from within those who receive Him. He has limited Himself to this. He has taken a great risk. But He insists that this is how it must be.
God wants Jesus Christ to live again on the earth. But this time in millions of people - the student, the professional, the housewife, the teacher, the cab driver, the prisoner behind bars, the sick person in the hospital, the teenager boy, the teenage girl, the man who suffered a divorce, the woman who is not too pretty, the woman who is, the old man, the middle aged man let go from his job, etc. etc. etc.
In millions of varied situations of every conceivable variety, God wants to manifest the life of Jesus Christ from within these people. There is no greater priviledge.
Now let me quote a verse to get you all convinced -
"According to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I will be put to shame, but with all boldness, as always, even now Christ will be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death.
For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." (Phil. 1:20,21)
The Apostle Paul earnestly expected, even in chains, even in jail, to have Jesus Christ magnified in His body.
There will be a grand homecoming to all those who have allowed Jesus Christ to be manifested in thier bodies. They will all be rewarded in addition to life everlasting. We, who have allowed Jesus Christ to be magnified and manifested in our living and out from out bodies, will enter into a 1,000 year joy of the Lord. This is even before the eternal age.
Live unto this. Live for this. All else will end in vanity. Whatever state and situation we find ourselves, we can allow Christ to be manifested from within us. If we receive Him and live Him, live unto Him, and live Him OUT, Christ will be manifested from within our lives.
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I'll grant that this sort of conduct is rare, but my point is that it is possible. When a christian tells me that we will never be good as JC, I think that that is a false doctrine, and that we, as ones who possess the bhuddaseed/godseed have exactly the same potential as JC, ie. that we may know god, while still alive in this body.
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It is not a matter of being a "good" man or a "good" woman. It is a matter of being a "God" man and a "God" woman. We need to take out one "o". We need to move from "good" to "God".
God simply wants us to live Christ to be a Godman. From the beginning of man's creation God placed man before
"the tree of life". Man instead turned to a
"tree of the knowledge of good and evil" .
But God's eternal purpose was to have man joined to the Uncreated Divine Life of the Divine Person.
So being born again is not merely a remedy for sinning. It is according to God's original plan to enter His divine life into man's created life for a union, a mingling, an interweaving of divinity with humanity.
Here we can see Paul saying he only wants to be found IN CHRIST not have his own righteousness, but having the Righteous One mingled into his life:
"And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith ...." (Phil. 3:9)
God only accepts the righteousness that is based on faith in this union with the Son of God. Christ Himself becomes our rightness before God.
There is only one MAN in all of history and in all the universe that God accepts. That is Jesus Christ, the beloved Son in Whom He has found His delight.
If I come to God with my goodness He would say "I cannot receive that. I can only receive Christ. I am only satisfied with Christ."
What we can do is open our beings and fully allow this Christ to enter in and fill us up. We can only OPEN up and receive this only One Whom God Almighty approves - His Son.
So you can see what it meant for God to give up His Son on the cross for us.
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You can put whatever slant on it, but at the end of the day, you submit that we must accept JC as our saviour (salvation being a widely misunderstood concept, and largely an untrue one), which immediately implies that we must "bow down" to Him, thereby invoking all sorts of divisions.
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If "bowing down" helps you to receive Jesus, then bow down. If standing upright helps you to open up and receive Jesus, then stand upright.
God is not interested in our groveling or begging or prostrating. He
is interested in our
believing. He is interested that Christ could make His home in our hearts through faith.
Do you know HOW your life will change if you wake up each morning with a praise
"Lord Jesus, You live in me. Lord Jesus I have you as my all and all?
"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
Eating Jesus is the way. Did you eat Jesus today ?
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So , as I can see you have attempted to show that your faith is one of unity with god, I still see that unity as something that comes after death, and not here and now while we are still alive.
(Do I more or less have you right?)
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Some of us who have received Jesus will physically expire before He comes. Some of us will live on until the moment He comes.
Either way we Christians are in the process of the Triune God filling, saturating, permeating us with Himself. Like a tea bag in hot water, God puts Christ into man to gradually change his "flavor".
This eternal life is for eternity. That it takes time, even a long time if necessry, for God to permeate and mingle Himself is not to be discouraging. He dispenses Himself into man in his present life. He continues to dispense Himself into man at the resurrection from the dead.
We should simply begin to enter into the process of God dispenseing Himself into us. He will not usurp our will. The symbol of the Holy Spirit is a
dove. A dove is rather shy. She is easily disturbed or shewed away.
The Triune God is a dove, a gentle One and a "gentleman". But He is also persistent. And He has a lot of time. If I do not cooperate today, I will cooperate tomorrow. If I do not cooperate this year, I will next year. Eventually, I will cooperate with His spreading, filling, permeating, and blending nature.
God is commited to carry out this mingling. And it is a matter of RIGHTEOUSNESS that He finish the job. And He will. He will present us before Himself spotless and without blemish as sons of God in love with Him. His covenant demands it. And He is able to save us to the uttermost.
The more we stand on these FACTS by faith the more God operates in us to carry out this process.
Division
17 Jan '11 14:54
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