Originally posted by karoly aczel
It is not exactly "the realm of the dead" , as you put it. (I'm pretty sure we're in agreement about what that means generally.)
But I disagree, I have come across (individual non-church affiliated) christians that have subscribed to more or less that idea, (that you may be one with god while still alive). Also some sects subscribe to it, just as in sphemous. That would be a real shame and would stunt any furthur debate on this topic 🙁 )
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It is not exactly "the realm of the dead" , as you put it. (I'm pretty sure we're in agreement about what that means generally.)
But I disagree, I have come across (individual non-church affiliated) christians that have subscribed to more or less that idea, (that you may be one with god while still alive). Also some sects subscribe to it, just as in the christian gnostic tradition.
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Being
"joined" the Lord Jesus or being
"firmly attached" to Christ is the New Testament's teaching. This is what I believe we should come back to even if it bucks tradition.
Oneness with God, being progressively wrought in the believer upon receiving Christ, is the New Testament teaching.
Christ living in the believer is also the New Testament proclaimation.
"Christ in you the hope of glory" is a teaching of the indwelling Person, in this present life, being the hope of the outward manifestation of God's splendour.
Paul's last written words in the New Testament are about the Lord Jesus Christ being WITH the innermost kernel of man's being:
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:22)
You know that the last words of a person are very important. These were Paul's final reminder to his co-worker Timothy. To paraphrase "Timothy, whatever else happens and no matter what, remember, the Lord Jesus Christ
IS with your spirit."
The Lord Jesus Christ being blended with His believers is so intergral a concept of the Bible that without it the Gospel collapses. If you do not have the inward indwelling of Christ Himself you merely fall back into an Islam type of belief or maybe a Jehovah's Witness style objectivisim.
I can hardly emphasize enough that the orthodox New Testament teaching is of a organic joining of God with man. He imparts Himself into the innermost being and He works to saturate, permeate, spread out, and eventually swallow up the believer's whole being in oneness with God.
At the resurrection and rapture this swallowing up in the divine life is consummated for the normal overcoming victors of faith.
"For also, we who are in this tabbernacle groan, being burdened, in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, THAT WHAT IS MORTAL MAY BE SWOLLOWED UP BY [DIVINE] LIFE." (2 Cor. 5:4 my emphasis)
You see, to the one who receives Christ, the divine life of the Triune God is working its way from the inside of man out. From the kernel to the outermost part He is speading this oneness with God. From the center to the circumferance He is dispensing His divine life into man.
This is the revelation that God is recovering today. We must come back to this high peak of New Testament revelation. We must do so especially in preparation for the second coming of Christ physically.
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I have read much very inspiring christian writings, jaywill. It showed me that christianity is not limited to a "one size fits all" religon, and has many other aspects that are largely ignored by mainstream christianity.
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There is no need for me to play one teacher against another. All the teachers belong to the church. I do not mean all are equally good. But we may certainly not reject anything that is good. Paul, Apollos, Peter, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, all are the property of the Christian church.
We need not pit one against the other. We may reap the good benefits of each as they served the Lord. Christians only err in establishing various kinds of "churches" according to these various servants of God.
But whatever is profitable I seek its benefits to reap. I do not have to play "Theological Fight Club". If you have something worthy that is not mainstream, I am open to hear it.
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(Now I really hope you are not one of those christians that think the above comments are in any way blasphemous. That would be a real shame and would stunt any furthur debate on this topic )
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I did not read any blasphemy. I think my main point here is that a living and organic oneness with the Triune God is definitely the teaching of the New Testament.
This oneness is a process that begins in regeneration. It completes in transfiguration. It begins in being born again. It consummates in resurrection and/or rapture.
This oneness begins in receiving Christ into the human spirit - the "nucleus" of our being, the kernel. This oneness progresses in sanctification, transformation, conformation, and reaches its climax in
"the redemption of the body".
This oneness with the Triune God culminates in a collective, aggregate, and corporate entity called
"The New Jerusalem". She matches Christ, marries Christ, is the Bride and Wife of Christ.
And
New Jerusalem is God becoming man and man becomming God, in life and nature but not in His sole Godhead.
The universe was created for this purpose. That is that the Triune may indwell and mingle with His redeemed, regenerated, transformed people. Man becomes God in life, nature, and expression (but not in His sole Fatherhood as the Source or Godhead) and God becomes man.
This was the aspiration and petition of Christ. This was His prayer that is so powerful that it must be fulfilled. It cannot fail to be fulfilled:
"That they all may be one, even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (John 17:21)
"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one;
I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (v.22,23)
"Father concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (v.24)
This prayer of Jesus Christ is so powerful that its answer is seen fully fulfilled in Revelation 21 and 22. The climax of human history and of God's history consummates in a
"city" which is the mingling of God and man for His expression and man's enjoyment for eternity.
Now, remember. On the THIRD DAY .... the THIRD DAY ... Jesus was raised from the dead. And today Jesus is available as the pneumatic life giving Holy Spirit.
He's available today. I mean
today.
[b]"