do muslims go to heaven???

Originally posted by zombies
I mean where exactly do they go when they die,??? Ive heard stories of 8 virgins. Do women muslims go to heaven, or must they become lesbians and get it on with the other 8 virgins. etc.

And this allah, or whatever, what's this being said about him and the Living God, Yahweh being one and the same, yet contradict about the Son. Whom one calls "This is ...[text shortened]... ied on the cross.

and what's that crescent moon and their religion have to do with anything.

Allow me. I am a Muslim, and happy to answer each and every question about my religion. I hope I don’t offend anyone, and if I do, please forgive me its not intentional. It’s a different point of view, different way of life. If we are disagreeing, then this is the nature of the debate and am happy to have a decent exchange, if you are up for it.

1, It is not true that women are less worthy than men. Nor men are better than women. In fact, neither is better than the other, but they are not equal, each have their goods/bads but none are better, (imagine an apple and an orange, they are different, but they are both fruit). It is a misconception I find common in the Western World. To answer your question; When men and women die, those who of a faith and those who are not, will be judged by Allah. Every creature will be judged, regardless of their religion. Some will go to Heaven, most to Hell. Men and Women alike.
2, As I mentioned the word Allah there, I will expand on His names. God, has 99 names, Allah is one. The Most Merciful is another. As long as your are referring to Him, you can call Him God, Allah, etc up to you.
3, We will be judged, as this life is merely a test. Some will be thrown to Hell fire, some will be going to Heaven as I mentioned. Some will be rewarded in Heaven, with big houses, virgin, rivers of wine and honey.
4, Islam believes in Jesus. But as a man. God has no need to have a son, who will be treated as such. God, the All Mighty is far bigger than that. Jesus was a prophet and brought a message to his people. When things got bad, and he was sentenced to be crucified, God made a look alike of him of one of the baddies. This impostor got the nails, while Jesus was hiding. Three days later he was seen (hence the idea of Resurrection – although he was never killed) and for his safety God lifted him to the Heavens.
5, Jesus never died, and he will return to save mankind once more.
6, Christianity follows the Solar Calendar. Islam follows the Lunar one. When the Moon is first seen, that’s the indication of the start of the month. At full moon, it’s the middle of the month, and when it disappears signs the end of the month.

I believe I answered all the questions posted. I will read through the others and will try to reply to the best of my ability.

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]Do women muslims go to heaven, or must they become lesbians and get it on with the other 8 virgins. etc.

Most women go to hell.

The Hadith, Bukhari vol. 1, no 28: The prophet [Muhammed] said, "I was shown the hell-fire, and the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful."

The Hadith, Bukhari vol. 1, no 301: Allah's Apostle.. ...[text shortened]... eping with this male chauvinistic religion.

(*Halitose sets stopwatch for a PM fatwa*)[/b]

It is safe to say, as it has been scientifically proven that the chance of having a girl born is 4 times of that of a boy. Times that by the hundreds of years mankind walked the Earth.

Hence as with my previous reply, if every man was sent to Hell, the chance there will be 4 times of that of women. You are right, if you can have a quick peek in Hell, you will see more women than men.

That’s more and not most.

Originally posted by RatX
Seeing you're the first guy to quickly defend Islam, how do you explain Mohammed (peace be upon him 🙄 ) consumating his marriage with Aisha who was aged 9?

Lack of desert legislation against pedophilia? Don't be hot-blooded and call this intolerance or bigotry - I'm just reporting the great prophet's illustrious history...

Let me catch up with the ki ...[text shortened]... ng later, bye for now 😉 Worms are sure to be crawling all over this post in a couple minutes...

Aisha was the prophet’s wife, that is true. She was the daughter of the
prophet’s best friend. She got married at an early age, but Islam forbids
sexual intercourse at such a young age. The prophet Mohammed (please
do not mock him if you wish me not to mock your father) is the best man
there ever was to follow Islam as accurately as God wished it to be. He
would have not done such a terrible thing, for he was what God chosen for
his last message.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Easy--it isn't mentioned in the Koran...ha ha ha...the (disputed) evidence for this alleged act is reported in various contradictory Hadiths...

A quote for your entertainment:

"Zakaria Ar-Razi, one of the greatest minds of the Islamic world, attacked religion in general and Islam in particular with a force unthinkable in this day. He wrote:
...[text shortened]... like Plato, Aristotle, Euclid, and Hippocrates have rendered much greater service to humanity."

Bosse de Nage, I advise you to read the Quran. Then state or quote any
opinion you wish for.

But not before understanding what you are talking about. I can quote you a
million lines from many great Islamic (or otherwise) writers who completely
disagree with this point of view.

But that won't make any difference to me. I read the Quran, and made my
own opinion.

Originally posted by Peachy
Bosse de Nage, I advise you to read the Quran. Then state or quote any
opinion you wish for.

I hear ya.

Originally posted by Halitose
Here's a quote from your link:

Hadith are the various traditions contained in specific books, believed in by the majority of Muslims to be the sayings of the prophet Muhammed.

Don't tell me the Hadith has no influence in Islam.

Hadith is the second reference for Muslims after the Quran.
It has a great impact and influence on our daily life.

Originally posted by Peachy
Bosse de Nage, I advise you to read the Quran. Then state or quote any
opinion you wish for.

But not before understanding what you are talking about. I can quote you a
million lines from many great Islamic (or otherwise) writers who completely
disagree with this point of view.

But that won't make any difference to me. I read the Quran, and made my
own opinion.

I read the Quran, and made my own opinion.

Isn't that one of the basics of Islam? That you and I are each responsible for our own interpretation and understanding (although, of course, we may seek the guidance of scholars, etc.)? We may disagree--perhaps over whether a given passage is to be read "literally" or allegorically or some other way--but that does not make one of us more or less Muslim than the other?

With regard to women in Islam. It seems to me that the "male chauvinists" did capture a lot of the religious leadership over the years--as has happened in other religions as well--with the resulting diminishment of women's voice, but that that was not the case in the early years and is really a deviation from "original" Islam. Aisha would be one example: she was a strong and outspoken woman, a leader and a general. Another example I recall was a woman who stood up in the congregation and challenged the Caliph's interpretation of the Qur'an (the Caliph was Uthman if I recall correctly); anyway, he thought a moment, and then declared: "She is right, I am wrong!" Do you expect to see a re-emergence of more women in Islamic leadership, among Islamic judges and the ulema, for example?

Originally posted by Peachy

well peachy, I have a bunch of questions for you/your religion

First and foremost the claim that chirst did not die, but a look-alike that actually did.
First do you know that man is a spirit, lives in a body, and has a soul.??? Secondly, if you take anyman and change their body to look different, the man stays the same. because Man is a spirit, and not a body? So anybody would have realized, whether the man was Christ or not, for christ is the spirit, and not the look. Which is why I can be with my lookalike, and anybody who knows me will tell you that that lookalike is not me.
If you read the account of the man that died on the cross, you would see that any-criminal would have refused to die, and given himself up a long-time ago. Jesus had a resolute mind to die for man, for it was the will of the father that mattered not his own, for he was born to die as such.
check his answers when the sanhedran asked him, when herod asked him, when pontius pilate asked him, when the jews said crucify him, when he carried his cross, and when he hang on it. and see for yourself if it was a different man. For Jesus died by choice, He made the explicit choice that I am willing to die for these, for he died "like a sheep going for slaughter" for he was the passover lamb of the living God. A criminal knowing that he will die, screams my friend, lies, and accuses, and if it was anybody but christ that was being accused like that, he would have denied all the allegations, and be let go as not fit for death.

Also if Jesus never died, how could he ask his unbelieving disciple "Tomas" who said," Unless I stick my hand into his side, and my finger into his hands, then will I believe". How can he appear to him, and say behold "Stick your hand into my hands, and put your hand into my side, and see that it is I who has risen", and he did, and he believed.

Or how can he claim that "All authority on heaven and earth has been given onto me, I hold the keys to death and hades", if he never died, and went into hell and defeated death and in it's kingdom??
For only by dying could death be defeated, and one could not take back the power of death from death without dying as man.???

And read revelation's the last chapter. Jesus 2ndlast words were "I am the alpha, and the Omega, the first and the "last"". How does your mohammed come after the "last", and exactly in whose name does he come??, if the prohpets never spoke of him, never prohpecied of him??

Originally posted by Peachy
Hadith is the second reference for Muslims after the Quran.
It has a great impact and influence on our daily life.

Thanks for making that clear, Peachy. That was my understanding of Islam too, you were just in time to prevent Bosse and I from upping this debate to a physical level. 😲

Originally posted by Halitose
Thanks for making that clear, Peachy. That was my understanding of Islam too, you were just in time to prevent Bosse and I from upping this debate to a physical level.

If I were Muslim, I'm pretty sure I'd be a heretic.

I think Peachy & vistesd are having a more productive discussion than we were...

Originally posted by Peachy
Allow me. I am a Muslim, and happy to answer each and every question about my religion. I hope I don’t offend anyone, and if I do, please forgive me its not intentional. It’s a different point of view, different way of life. If we are disagreeing, then this is the nature of the debate and am happy to have a decent exchange, if you are up for it.
...[text shortened]... uestions posted. I will read through the others and will try to reply to the best of my ability.

Let me correct you slightly
1.The bible says, all judgement has been handed over to the Son, and what exactly happens to the devil in islam if there is such a thing.
Also explain to us, how exactly did "gabriel" approach muhammed, was it by force, or by respect??? And was it really Gabriel, or a spirit claiming to be "gabriel", and did it say I come from Yahweh, or who did it say send it.

Anyways for a god to judge your sin, he must remember your sin, and re-call it. but Yahweh says, "I will remember your sin no-more". Yahweh, hates sin, whether small or big any sin he hates, for the bible teaches "The soul that sins, shall die" not sins a little bit and does a little good here and then somehow they balance out?? Naah.
We as christians are saved by grace, not by works, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god".

2. allah and Yahweh being one, is the biggest lie muslims attempt to perpetuate. Yahweh himself "audibly" declared Jesus as His Son on "two" occasions in the bible. First, at the baptism with John the baptist, and he said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.", Second at the transfiguration where he said again "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: Hear Him!". While allah on the other hand blatantly denies ever having had a son, and says, "Let no man say allah has a son".
My friend, if allah, and Yahweh are one and the same, they will have the same son. and if they do not have the same son, then one of them is not the other.

Allah my friend is a demon, that perpetuates itself as Yahweh, check twice.

allah from your writing I can see that allah sees man as flesh and bone, Yahweh sees man as spirit, "For God is Spirit", and the bible teaches that man is a spirit, lives in a body, and has a soul.

5. about jesus never having died: "Any spirit that denies that Jesus is the son of God, who came in the flesh and died, is not from God. "
Of course God being Yahweh, and not allah.

My friend, read Isaih 51-55, read daniel9, read jeremiah, read moses's symbolic hanging of the bronze snake in the desert, representing sin placed on christ, read the bible, and see for yourself, for Yahweh says "Taste and see that God is good"

Originally posted by zombies
Let me correct you slightly
1.The bible says, all judgement has been handed over to the Son, and what exactly happens to the devil in islam if there is such a thing.
Also explain to us, how exactly did "gabriel" approach muhammed, was it by force, or by respect??? And was it really Gabriel, or a spirit claiming to be "gabriel", and did it say I come ...[text shortened]... hrist, read the bible, and see for yourself, for Yahweh says "Taste and see that God is good"

Honest question, Zombies: Do you think Peachy is going to try to see things your way if you've just called his god a demon?

Aren't you preaching to the choir here?

P.S. I agree with you that Allah and the Christian God cannot be one and the same... the difference in doctrine alone is just too huge.

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]I read the Quran, and made my own opinion.

Isn't that one of the basics of Islam? That you and I are each responsible for our own interpretation and understanding (although, of course, we may seek the guidance of scholars, etc.)? We may disagree--perhaps over whether a given passage is to be read "literally" or allegorically or some other way- ...[text shortened]... -emergence of more women in Islamic leadership, among Islamic judges and the ulema, for example?[/b]

It is indeed, we are responsible to understand it, and if couldn’t (as the Quran is written in the Classical Arabic, you can say Shakespearian English for you) it can be difficult to comprehend fully. There are four main Scholars who studied the Quran intensely, made connections with the Prophet’s sayings (Hadith) and written down their interpretation for us. Although there can be minor differences, they have been credited by all as Right. For example, when they mention the way a Muslim should pray, one states that we should place our arms by the sides, another to place the right hand over the back of the left, which is resting at the belly. And so on. These differences are minor, and as long the intention to pray to God is made, it doesn’t really matter where you place your hands..

But overall, we follow one or the other’s interpretation.

As for Women re-emerging and becoming Leaders in the Islamic states, well, at the moment I very much doubt it. As there are no true Islamic states. Even the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is a contradictory name by itself.

In Islam, Monarchy is forbidden!!!

Originally posted by zombies
well peachy, I have a bunch of questions for you/your religion

First and foremost the claim that [b]chirst did not die, but a look-alike that actually did.
First do you know that man is a spirit, lives in a body, and has a soul.??? Secondly, if you take anyman and change their body to look different, the man stays the same. because Man is a spirit, ...[text shortened]... ctly in whose name does he come??, if the prohpets never spoke of him, never prohpecied of him??[/b]

God does what He wills. He created man and countless other beings from scratch and if His will is to change a man to look like another, then it is as easy to God as creating the whole of humanity.

I understand I am discussing a very sensitive topic here, the entirety of what you believe of Jesus as the Son, the Crucifixion and so on, differs greatly. I am not trying here to convert you, or cause any offence, I am merely stating what Islam taught me.

Answer me this; why would God, the Almighty, the Most Gracious the Most Merciful would want to have a Son?

(Mary, 91-93)
“That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.”
“For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.”
“Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.”

We are all servants to the Creator of the Heavens and Earth and what lays in between. Think about it.

Then, why would God, the Most Powerful would want to humiliate His “Son” in front of His servants? Does this make sense to you?

A simple truth that might sound harsh. Apologies in advance, although am sure you are aware;
The Bible was translated and translated again and again from Hebrew, to Koine Greek, to Latin to English. Several translations, often inaccurate, leaked into circulation.

What makes you so confident that the verses mentioned in the Bible are true God’s words?

The Bible has changed, by man. That’s a fact. Hence God, sent the Last of His messages through Mohammed and Islam. The very first written copy of the Quran matches word for word to any copy you buy in the shops today. God reserved it to eternity.

Another fact; did you know that the Church of England has the right to change the Bible, if needs be to protect its people. Who gives man the right to change God’s words?

Mohammed was mentioned in the Bible, as it states in the Quran. However, that was long wiped out from Translation as Conservative Christians wanted protect its people from leaving the Church!

And this is yet another fact.

Originally posted by Peachy
It is indeed, we are responsible to understand it, and if couldn’t (as the Quran is written in the Classical Arabic, you can say Shakespearian English for you) it can be difficult to comprehend fully. There are four main Scholars who studied the Quran intensely, made connections with the Prophet’s sayings (Hadith) and written down their interpretation for us. ...[text shortened]... ngdom of Saudi Arabia, is a contradictory name by itself.

In Islam, Monarchy is forbidden!!!

Thanks for the response. A couple more questions--

(1) Is my understanding of the Hadith correct? That is, that no single Hadith can be assumed to be authentic since the selection criteria the inability to prove that a Hadith couldn’t be authentic? And that, therefore—although they may be consulted as a guide—one would have to be very careful in using them? For example, some of the Hadith on women seem to conflict with Muhammad’s regard for women—and I don’t mean particularly the ones that Hal cited. But I am confused still on the weight given to Hadith….

(2) No one has raised this one yet, but in regard to Surah 4:34—“…And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them.” (From Muhammad Asad’s translation.)

Now, Asad’s commentary on this reads in part: “It is evident from many authentic Traditions [Hadith?] that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one’s wife, and said on more than one occasion, ‘Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?’ (Bukhari and Mulsim). According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, ‘Never beat God’s handmaidens.’” On the basis of other traditions, Asad says that all authorities stress that such a “beating,” if allowed at all, should be more or less symbolic, such as being done with a folded handkerchief (he cites Razi here).

On the other hand, Ahmed Ali asserts that “beat” is really a mistranslation, and that the Arabic word darab is used idiomatically, and can mean to resume sexual relations with them. I have read elsewhere (can’t remember where) that it is also used in other idioms, the way we would say in English, “to strike a deal” or “to strike out on a journey”—and that elsewhere in the Qur’an, it always has some idiomatic meaning, and is never used to mean any kind of physical striking or hitting. Ahmed Ali’s translation seems to indicate that if the first two means do not work, but the parties can be reconciled, then they simply resume relations as before; if not, then verse 35, immediately following, provides for mediation by members of the husband’s and wife’s respective families.

My question is, how do most Muslims read this verse, in your experience?

I wish I could take you up on your offer of real debate, but I simply don’t know enough—nor are my own views settled enough. If I can come up with something, I will.🙂