Originally posted by googlefudgeIt's really a shame that modern man has all but abandoned common sense and reasoning for his enlightened modern day morality. On the surface it appears to be a workable trade off... knowing more and understanding less.
No it's always been morally bad, the fact that in the past most people didn't know better
doesn't mean it was morally right then any more than people not knowing better today
doesn't make it morally right today.
What is morally right is not subjective but objective, and what changes is not what is or is
not morally correct. But what we know about what is or is not morally correct.
But we don't actually need to understand as much because modern conveniences make it completely unnecessary to, for example, know how to make fire from sticks found on the ground. And we don't need women staying at home to protect and suckle babies, because daddy can now take of that little inconvenience... with bottled baby food and powdered milk. We don't have to go trudging about in search of clean water, stalk and kill game for meat, or select weird tasting vegetation for eating later after getting back to our smoke filled caves.
Just as a thought experiment, I wonder how long it would take for mankind to readjust to conditions existing thousands of years ago. Imagine if all of us took a ride back in a time machine and permanently set up housekeeping in the distant past... completely abandon the present time, and leave all of that stuff we've invented for ourselves for the rest of the animal kingdom to play with and poop on.
When we get there we will undoubtedly want to keep all of our ideas of propriety and morality intact and operational, and see if they still apply without the modern governing principles and technological conveniences and practices we've become so accustomed to having in place... because we haven't actually known anything else, and we've come to assume these are basic rights and staples of life itself.
So we take all of the ideas we have today that enable men to stay at home to nurture babies, and enable women to work and fight in wars, but the not the things themselves that enable our modern enlightened lifestyle and 'improved' morality. We take our modern paradigm back with us and try making it work in what (by comparison) appear to be very extreme primitive conditions.
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Here's a glimpse at what I think most probably wouldn't happen... I believe it's unlikely we would soon have a little town named 'Bedrock' and neighbors with names like 'Fred Flintstone' and 'Barney Rubble'. 🙂
-Removed-Apparently there were people back then (in primitive times and cultures) who were wise enough to understand the folly of reminiscing over 'the good old days'. And I suspect sending everyone into the past would cause many of them to reminisce over the 'good old days' from the future yet to come... it seems the grass will appear greener everywhere and every-when else.
Originally posted by lemon limeThe notion of morally upright leaders interests me.
Was the title of this thread meant as a rhetorical question, or was Rajk999 correct in assuming it wasn't? Inquiring minds want to know... or it could be that it's just me who wants to know.
Do they actually exist, that is, men who are not driven by Marxist lust for money.
Originally posted by whodeyIn my opinion yes, they do exist. I've turned down big money jobs and for no other reason than something didn't smell right. I didn't want to take the chance of becoming part of something that might go down in flames and take me with it. I've also turned down money associated with some things I thought were morally wrong. So being able to resist the lure of money is not just a virtue that exists for no particular reason, there are some very good and practical reasons for not being tempted by money.
The notion of morally upright leaders interests me.
Do they actually exist, that is, men who are not driven by Marxist lust for money.
And all it really takes to become aware of how a lust for money can hurt rather then help is by simple trial and error, followed by an honest appraisal of what happened and why. Hopefully this lesson can be learned early in life before we become adults, but the reality is not everyone does.
Nevertheless, I don't believe resistance to loving money is extremely rare and I certainly don't think the lure of money is so absolutely irresistible that no one can resist it... whether in biblical times or today.
Originally posted by whodeyAs far as the other qualifying attributes they were looking, I can't honestly say I would have adequately filled the bill. But the money part of it is a no brainer.
The notion of morally upright leaders interests me.
Do they actually exist, that is, men who are not driven by Marxist lust for money.
I became so sick of Nimrods who thought they could lead me around by the nose by simply waving money in my face, it had the same effect as aversion therapy... and after that I actually had to overcome an unreasonable suspicion of money.
But I'd still like to know (because I can't be sure) if the question in your title was meant to be rhetorical or not. I was 98.5% sure it was rhetorical, but someone came along and placed some reasonable doubt in my head
So do you think (or believe) such men no longer exist?
Originally posted by lemon limeI do believe they exist but they are a rare commodity.
As far as the other qualifying attributes they were looking, I can't honestly say I would have adequately filled the bill. But the money part of it is a no brainer.
I became so sick of Nimrods who thought they could lead me around by the nose by simply waving money in my face, it had the same effect as aversion therapy... and after that I actually had ...[text shortened]... laced some reasonable doubt in my head
So do you think (or believe) such men no longer exist?
St. Paul was even accused of switching to Christianity for his own monetary benefit.
In the end, God knows I suppose.
Originally posted by whodeyObviously a small percentage. But look at it this way, if it's possible to find one such person who can meet all of the requirements out of say, 1 thousand or 5 thousand (or as many as 10 thousand) people from a group of a few million, imagine how many you might be able to find out of a few billion people today.
I do believe they exist but they are a rare commodity.
St. Paul was even accused of switching to Christianity for his own monetary benefit.
In the end, God knows I suppose.
I don't believe they were looking for perfectly flawless people, because if they were it could take anywhere from a very long time to never to get the kind of governing group they wanted put into place. And it needed to be done in a lot less time than a modern day bureaucracy would be able to accomplish. So it wouldn't necessarily need to be a perfect system of governing, it just needed to work well enough to reasonably "insure domestic tranquility."
Originally posted by Great King RatBy what standard do you measure?
Actually, there were and are lots of extraordinary humans.
Of course, that wasn't the point, but by all means, focus on something trivial like that if it helps ease your mind 🙂
Maybe you could say something about Goldilocks as well?
There you have it! Set up your own standard and you can make anyone "extraordinary". Or appear to be.
But God sees the heart. To you it is trivial. Or you make it appear to be.
Originally posted by Rajk999Man is that ever convoluted! That you would say such things makes me wonder in what high esteem you hold yourself.
Like how you consider yourself 'above the rest'. You will escape judgment, not have to account for your sins, and enter Gods Kingdom while many others will burn in hell for all eternity for doing apparently nothing wrong.
I don't think I'm better than you, but I know better, and that ain't the same thing.
"You will escape judgment, not have to account for your sins,.."
What kind of a thing is that to say? Of course I will not be judged for my sins you ignoramus. Jesus died on the cross to pay my sin's debt, and He rose from the dead just as I will too. In fact, I'm already risen from the dead "in Christ"!
A truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ that appears to have not entered your mind. Yet!
Originally posted by lemon lime😉 So subtle in fact that I was barely able to find this post of yours.
Wo! This thread has been moving so fast I didn't realize you were here until I saw the rat react to one of your posts.
As difficult as this is for me to believe it seems he is genuinely puzzled by my Goldilocks remarks. I think Ghost got it, but I can't be sure because sometimes he gets it and sometimes he covers his confusion over with wisecracks... b ...[text shortened]... I've been guilty of being too subtle? You can tell me, I can take it like a man... am I guilty?
I get so lost around here sometimes. If I had the time I could go back for weeks and find posts in reply to mine that I'll never see. Drives me nuts keeping up. 🙄
-Removed-I'm not entirely sure who Whodey is referring to, but I believe these "men" only appear as appointed, they do not "exist" ad hoc.
He was talking about looking for leaders among the group of people Moses was shepherding through the wilderness, if that's what you mean. But it's not actually clear to me what you mean. Are you suggesting those men who were chosen are only virtuous by virtue of being appointed? If so then it renders the purpose of searching for virtuous men meaningless.
The rest of your message appears to be related to the idea of leadership, and is perhaps applicable to whodeys question... but I still don't know what your point is or what it is you were referring to.
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Originally posted by josephwSo subtle in fact that I was barely able to find this post of yours.
😉 So subtle in fact that I was barely able to find this post of yours.
I get so lost around here sometimes. If I had the time I could go back for weeks and find posts in reply to mine that I'll never see. Drives me nuts keeping up. 🙄
Ah yes. It is not enough to be subtle with words grasshopper, we must also be proficient in the art of subtle post placement.
But Lo, I suddenly feel a disturbance in the force and it has a name... but I'll just call it 'robbie', because I feel his presence nearing and he be itching to respond...
Arise oh disturbing force, and scratch thine itchy thigh from whence thine cursed itch cometh from wearing those darn woolen kilts i'll betcha that's why you know I'm right dontcha... yeah, I thought so!