do you believe in reincarnation?

Originally posted by shavixmir
I can prove that by adding or subtracting chemicals that I can change memory and the personality.

Do you agree that changing memory and personality is changing the soul?

If there is reincarnation of souls then obviously a mere changing of memory and personality doesn't change the soul.

Originally posted by no1marauder
If there is reincarnation of souls then obviously a mere changing of memory and personality doesn't change the soul.

That what I was fishing for.
If the soul is more than memory and personality, what is it then. Define it.

Originally posted by amannion
I can't speak for Rwinget, but my answer would've been (is) the same as his. For me reincarnation fits into the same categories as God, Faeries, Ghosts, and other superstitious and supernatural events and phenomena.
I choose not to believe in any of these things, including reincarnation, for two reasons: 1. no one has ever been able to convincingly describ ...[text shortened]... nd natural way, and that supernatural events and phenomena do not exist and do not occur.

Many reasonable explanations of one era seem to be proven wrong in latter eras. Newton's model of the universe was elegant and explained all the observations of the natural world for hundreds of years. Then Einstein and relativity came along and Newtonian mechanics was shown to be flawed.

Yet, relativity relies on "locality" i.e. the concept that what happens here cannot instanteously effect something somewhere else. But Bell's Theorem and the experimental results from it show that all of the universe is linked in ways that violate locality.

http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html

I submit that a universe with superluminal connections sounds very much like the Eastern idea of Brahman/Tao/Void. Therefore, it isn't very scientific to dismiss the idea of the soul as a manifestion of this unified consciousness.

Originally posted by shavixmir
That what I was fishing for.
If the soul is more than memory and personality, what is it then. Define it.

A small part of the "one without a second". Of the Absolute Consciousness. A wave in the vast ocean of Atman.

Originally posted by the dutchman
hello,

do you believe in reincrnation, that you've had alot of life's before this life and maybe gonna have alot more after this life??

Yes

Originally posted by no1marauder
Many reasonable explanations of one era seem to be proven wrong in latter eras. Newton's model of the universe was elegant and explained all the observations of the natural world for hundreds of years. Then Einstein and relativity came along and Newtonian mechanics was shown to be flawed.

Yet, relativity relies on "locality" i.e. the concept ...[text shortened]... scientific to dismiss the idea of the soul as a manifestion of this unified consciousness.

Perhaps you're right, but until I hear more about the soul from a solid scientific standpoint - tested, experimented, predicted, peer reviewed and so on - and less from a pseudo-scientific eastern mythological perpsective, I'll stick with my views.

Originally posted by amannion
Perhaps you're right, but until I hear more about the soul from a solid scientific standpoint - tested, experimented, predicted, peer reviewed and so on - and less from a pseudo-scientific eastern mythological perpsective, I'll stick with my views.

Ignoring evidence is being pseudo-scientific. Did you bother to read the link to Bell's Theorem? Or isn't that "scientific" enough for ya?

EDIT: Here's a brief discussion of the implications of Bell's Theorem:

Among those who accept Bell's Theorem [all but a small minority according to this and other articles], Dr. David Bohm of the University of London offers three interpretations of what it means: "It may mean that everything in the universe is in a kind of total rapport, so that whatever happens is related to everything else (non-locality); or it may mean that there is some kind of information that can travel faster than the speed of light; or it may mean that our concepts of space and time have to be modified in some way that we don't understand"(London Times, February 20, 1983).

Bohm's first model, "total rapport," also called non-locality, brings us very close -- very, very close -- to Oriental monism: "All is One," as in Vedanta, Buddhism, and Taoism. It also brings us within hailing distance of Jungian synchronicity, an idea that seems "occult" or worse to most scientists -- even if Wolfgang Pauli, a quantum heavyweight and Nobel laureate, once endorsed it. You can see why New Agers like this; it is argued with unction and plausibility in Fritjof Capra's The Tao of Physics. It means particles are correlated because everything is correlated.

http://www.gettingit.com/article/266

Originally posted by the dutchman
hello,

do you believe in reincrnation, that you've had alot of life's before this life and maybe gonna have alot more after this life??

First you must explain what you mean by reincarnation. What is a soul? Do thoughts/memories/character / consciousness get transfered? If nothing identifiable gets transfered then why would one say that something was transfered?
I cant remember any past lives and am convinced that all my current character is based on my experiences in my current life combined with my physical makeup and some inherent randomness. So if your concept of reincarnation includes the transfer of meaningful information from one life form to another then no, I don't believe in it.

the soul is like the body (car) for the spirit, here on earth we have the human body (the car) for the soul and spirit.

the soul doesn't change, the spirit and the human body true different life's do, the spirit changes (your personality/character) true our evolution of life's we have to eliminate all negative characters in ourself, jealousy, lazyness, anger, hate, al that kind of things and we have to learn how 2 love eathother in what kind of form...

reincarnation, give's us the oppertunity 2 get our karma in ballance that we brought off balance in other life's, like murder, i see if you do that, an other life you have 2 give back a life, then its in ballance again.

i believe in god. if this is our first and last life, i think thats unfair that are people that are blind, def, mutalated etc, but if you think in reincarnation, some of that people have 2 learn some life-lessons, so in a different life that soul is free of blindness..

if you don't believe in "ghosts" what is then the contact with our lost family or friends??

so typt alot, hope you people read it with interest.

gr the dutchman

Originally posted by the dutchman
i believe in god. if this is our first and last life, i think thats unfair that are people that are blind, def, mutalated etc, but if you think in reincarnation, some of that people have 2 learn some life-lessons, so in a different life that soul is free of blindness..

Live is not fair and wanting something doesn't make it so.

You have now introduced the spirit as well as the soul without really explaining what they are. You also don't explain how they can 'learn - life's - lessons' are they also thinking entities with memories?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Ignoring evidence is being pseudo-scientific. Did you bother to read the link to Bell's Theorem? Or isn't that "scientific" enough for ya?

EDIT: Here's a brief discussion of the implications of Bell's Theorem:

Among those who accept Bell's Theorem [all but a small minority according to this and other articles], Dr. David Bohm of the University of L ...[text shortened]... because everything is correlated.

http://www.gettingit.com/article/266[/b]

No, I didn't read the link, but I have read of Bohm's work which is very interesting. (I'm inclined to be very friendly to eastern philosophies.)
But to go from that to an explanation of the soul is drawing a very long bow. Along the lines of what Fritjof Capra did - taking comparisons between scientific and eastern viewpoints to extreme and unwarranted conclusions.

Originally posted by amannion
No, I didn't read the link, but I have read of Bohm's work which is very interesting. (I'm inclined to be very friendly to eastern philosophies.)
But to go from that to an explanation of the soul is drawing a very long bow. Along the lines of what Fritjof Capra did - taking comparisons between scientific and eastern viewpoints to extreme and unwarranted conclusions.

If you don't even know what Bell's Theorem is and have no interest in finding out, how can you meaningfully say that Capri is drawing "unwarranted conclusions"? It's like the Fundies railing against radiometric dating methods.

see the soul as an energy and the spirit is who you are your personality/character.. and the spirit is in the soul

here on earth we have the human body and in the body we have the soul/spirit your feeling/personality/character and your mind/the brain...

so when we die, our soul and spirit live on and the body stay's and go 6 feet under.

this is the clearist i can be..

if you are more interest i can give you a site, don't know if i can put site adress on here?? im dutch but that site is also in english,

let me know, if not no problem..

gr Dutch.

Originally posted by no1marauder
If you don't even know what Bell's Theorem is and have no interest in finding out, how can you meaningfully say that Capri is drawing "unwarranted conclusions"? It's like the Fundies railing against radiometric dating methods.

Give me a break, I never said anything about having no interest in finding out about Bell's Theorem. I'm happy to do so.
Unlike some on these forums I have a life that isn't dictated by those same forums - that is, I've got other stuff that concerns me than whether I get to read about Bell's Theorem in the next hour or day or week.
I'll get to it and I'll get back to you.

When Tutankamun's tomb was opened he was still there. In his case at least, reincarnation does not seem to have occurred. Which is a pity, as he was obviously well up for it.