Originally posted by NemesioYou are defining the words in such a manner that sense cannot be made of them. God knew before He created exactly how each free will agent would act. Man's free will and God's sovereignty coexist in time. He knew how man would act, He knew His responses. He certified that each and every thought, word and deed would occur, exactly as each agent would commit the same.
If it is logically necessary that A transpires it is a consequence that it
is logically impossible that ~A transpires (that is that A does not
happen).
So, if it logically necessary that a non-believer goes to Hell, then it is
logically impossible that they not go to Hell. And, if this occurred in
accordance with the decree of God, then they were [i ...[text shortened]... s decreed since the beginning of time,
then the unbeliever is, in fact, predestined.
Nemesio
Because you have difficulty separating them doesn't mean that God faces the same obstacles. The proof is your own life. Did you make up your mind to read this, or did God cause you to do the same?
Some biological life rises to the level of soul life, and therefore human life. Some does not. Some human life rises to the level of spiritual life, and some does not. God provides an untainted soul for each and every biological life that comes away from the womb. Each soul makes their own decisions; God simply knew what those decisions would be prior to them ever being made by each of us souls.
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou're just making stuff up as you go along.
Some biological life rises to the level of soul life, and therefore human life. Some does not. Some human life rises to the level of spiritual life, and some does not. God provides an untainted soul for each and every biological life that comes away from the womb. Each soul makes their own decisions; God simply knew what those decisions would be prior to them ever being made by each of us souls.
You are also wrong. God's foreknowledge renders decisions logically impossible, for there are no logically possible alternatives at the time of the putative decision.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhy would he create any that would choose to go to hell?
God knew before He created exactly how each free will agent would act.
Why wouldn't he create only those that would love him? This does not violate the free will argument that only beings with free will can love, because you are asserting that these beings actually have free will.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesEvery person, in a sense, has the opportunity to be their own god. They can make the god-like decision to either worship themselves, i.e., find pleasure within themselves, or, they can chose to find their pleasure in absolute perfection, namely, God.
Why would he create any that would choose to go to hell?
Why wouldn't he create only those that would love him? This does not violate the free will argument that only beings with free will can love, because you are asserting that these beings actually have free will.
How can one have a free will and yet not have a choice to make?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHOne can't, of course, but you have just been asserting that one can.
How can one have a free will and yet not have a choice to make?
Which is it? Are people created with free will or not?
If so, why doesn't God create only those that will exercise their will to love him, and refrain from creating those that would exercise their will to not love him?
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIs that fair?
One can't, of course, but you have just been asserting that one can.
Which is it? Are people created with free will or not?
If so, why doesn't God create only those that will exercise their will to love him, and refrain from creating those that would exercise their will to not love him?
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHNever got what opportunity? To choose to hate God? Every person would have that opportunity, but not avail themselves of it.
Those who never got the opportunity.
You have to accept this if you assert that God's foreknowledge does not preclude free will. If you say that free will is consistent with God's foreknowledge, then every person God creates with the foreknowledge that that person will choose to love him actually had the opportunity to reject him. Nobody missed any opportunities under your premises.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIsn't this what everyone has been asking you? A decree is a decree, unless there is some other definition of a decree of which I am unaware. If God has decreed that I will not believe in him and therefore spend eternity separated from him, then I never made a choice not to believe in him...it was decreed that I would not believe in him. See?
How can one have a free will and yet not have a choice to make?
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesExcept, of course, for those people who He did not create because He knew such creation would have ultimately led to their entrance into hell. Unfair to them.
Never got what opportunity? To choose to hate God? Every person would have that opportunity, but not avail themselves of it.
You have to accept this if you assert that God's foreknowledge does not preclude free will. If you say that free will is consistent with God's foreknowledge, then every person God creates with the foreknowledge that that ...[text shortened]... ually had the opportunity to reject him. Nobody missed any opportunities under your premises.
Originally posted by David CThe decree is the actual. It is not the cause, in the sense that you are taking it. The decree certifies, not determines what the outcome will be.
Isn't this what everyone has been asking you? A decree is a decree, unless there is some other definition of a decree of which I am unaware. If God has decreed that I will not believe in him and therefore spend eternity separated from him, then I never made a choice not to believe in him...it was decreed that I would not believe in him. See?