1. Joined
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    10 Feb '08 16:21
    how powerful is god, does he know everything about everything.... if so, he knows the future, he knows the outcome, he knows i will sin tomorrow...

    if we have free will is it possible god has already worked out every possibility
  2. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    10 Feb '08 19:51
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    how powerful is god, does he know everything about everything.... if so, he knows the future, he knows the outcome, he knows i will sin tomorrow...

    if we have free will is it possible god has already worked out every possibility
    He knows in eternity what you are doing tomorrow because he has already seen you do it.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    10 Feb '08 19:53
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    how powerful is god, does he know everything about everything.... if so, he knows the future, he knows the outcome, he knows i will sin tomorrow...

    if we have free will is it possible god has already worked out every possibility
    I know you are going to sin tomorrow and I'm not God.
    I believe God knows everything that can be known.
    Kelly
  4. Joined
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    10 Feb '08 21:31
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I know you are going to sin tomorrow and I'm not God.
    I believe God knows everything that can be known.
    Kelly
    then its not possible for me to sin, he already knows, really he should stop me doing it
  5. Joined
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    10 Feb '08 21:32
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    He knows in eternity what you are doing tomorrow because he has already seen you do it.
    then if i sin it's his fault
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    10 Feb '08 21:48
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    then if i sin it's his fault
    No , because you are free not to.
  7. Joined
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    10 Feb '08 21:48
    Originally posted by eatmybishop

    if we have free will is it possible god has already worked out every possibility
    You have no free will.

    God already knows what you are going to do, hence it is predetermined. You really don't have a choice in the matter since it is already known what you are going to do.

    Free will is a myth. We all are just god's marionettes.
  8. Standard memberknightmeister
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    11 Feb '08 15:32
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    You have no free will.

    God already knows what you are going to do, hence it is predetermined. You really don't have a choice in the matter since it is already known what you are going to do.

    Free will is a myth. We all are just god's marionettes.
    You already know what Columbus is about to do , how does that prove that he had no choice in the matter? Please explain
  9. Joined
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    11 Feb '08 15:49
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    You already know what Columbus is about to do , how does that prove that he had no choice in the matter? Please explain
    Because:

    1 - God is non interventive and already knows what's going to happen, and that makes free will irrelevant in the eyes of God.
    2 - God is interventive , so there's not true free will.

    The question is: if God already knows what's going to happen, why does all this game exist? Think about it deeply, it doesn't make any sense.
    The only way you can get out of this dilemma is by saying God does not know what will happen in the future.
  10. Standard memberknightmeister
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    12 Feb '08 13:17
    Originally posted by serigado
    Because:

    1 - God is non interventive and already knows what's going to happen, and that makes free will irrelevant in the eyes of God.
    2 - God is interventive , so there's not true free will.

    The question is: if God already knows what's going to happen, why does all this game exist? Think about it deeply, it doesn't make any sense.
    The only way you can get out of this dilemma is by saying God does not know what will happen in the future.
    You haven't answered my question- see below


    You already know what Columbus is about to do , how does that prove that he had no choice in the matter? Please explain
  11. Standard memberknightmeister
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    12 Feb '08 13:21
    Originally posted by serigado
    Because:

    1 - God is non interventive and already knows what's going to happen, and that makes free will irrelevant in the eyes of God.
    2 - God is interventive , so there's not true free will.

    The question is: if God already knows what's going to happen, why does all this game exist? Think about it deeply, it doesn't make any sense.
    The only way you can get out of this dilemma is by saying God does not know what will happen in the future.
    The question is: if God already knows what's going to happen, why does all this game exist? Think about it deeply, it doesn't make any sense.
    The only way you can get out of this dilemma is by saying God does not know what will happen in the future. ---serigado---

    You don't get it. God knows what you DID tomorrow. He doesn't live in our time. He knows it in eternity. If you are an eternal being outside of time then you will know everything in the universe.

    If you live forever and are omniscient how is it possible for you to not know everything that happens in i(whether past present or future). For God the universe is already gone, if you have free will it's impossible for God to not know what you did.
  12. Joined
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    12 Feb '08 14:22
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    You haven't answered my question- see below


    You already know what Columbus is about to do , how does that prove that he had no choice in the matter? Please explain
    God created everything. Everything works because of God's will. If things were to be different, it had to be God's choice.
    So...
    The minute God creates men, he already knows what's he going to do , right? So what's the sense of saying man has a free-will to do whatever he wants? NO! There's only an illusion of free-will to men themselves because they don't know what's happening next. To God, he knows already what's happening. He created it that way!
  13. Joined
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    12 Feb '08 14:271 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    [b]The question is: if God already knows what's going to happen, why does all this game exist? Think about it deeply, it doesn't make any sense.
    The only way you can get out of this dilemma is by saying God does not know what will happen in the future. ---serigado---
    You don't get it. God knows what you DID tomorrow. He doesn't live in our time. He knows it in eternity. If you are an eternal being outside of time then you will know everything in the universe.
    [/b]
    Does it say so in the Bible or is it just your interpretation? I guess it all comes from Einstein saying time is another dimension...


    If you live forever and are omniscient how is it possible for you to not know everything that happens in i(whether past present or future). For God the universe is already gone, if you have free will it's impossible for God to not know what you did.

    Strangely, God seemed to follow a linear time reference when creating the Universe. At the first day, blabla, at the second, blabla... Why didn't he create it all it a snap of fingers? He's omnipotent, afterall...
    Can't you see there are simply too many logical flaws in the Bible? Everytime someone tries to justify them , they start to make a fool out of themselves. Especially when to do so, they're using science.
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
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    12 Feb '08 15:43
    Originally posted by serigado
    [b]You don't get it. God knows what you DID tomorrow. He doesn't live in our time. He knows it in eternity. If you are an eternal being outside of time then you will know everything in the universe.
    [/b]
    Does it say so in the Bible or is it just your interpretation? I guess it all comes from Einstein saying time is another dimension...


    If you ...[text shortened]... start to make a fool out of themselves. Especially when to do so, they're using science.
    God has to be outside of time as we know it otherwise he could not create the universe because to create the universe means to create time itself. He also has to be a permanent fixture in existence because if there ever was a "time" when God was not then nothing else could exist.

    The Bible clearly states that God is the Uncaused cause of life itself and is without beginning or end. That makes him eternal.

    As for the references to linear time in Genesis , it's not meant to be a scientific statement. We can only make sense of God in our own terms. It's metaphorical and descriptive rather than saying anything about linear time and God.

    Now I don't know what strawman of a god you have in your head but he's certainly doesn't sound like the God of Christianity if he's not eternal.
  15. Joined
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    12 Feb '08 15:59
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    God has to be outside of time as we know it otherwise he could not create the universe because to create the universe means to create time itself. He also has to be a permanent fixture in existence because if there ever was a "time" when God was not then nothing else could exist.

    The Bible clearly states that God is the Uncaused cause of life itse ...[text shortened]... head but he's certainly doesn't sound like the God of Christianity if he's not eternal.
    That's your personal interpretation of the Bible and the way you can complement the reality you see with your belief.

    The Bible clear? The Bible is never clear. No one could get it past the first paragraph yet... A book that rises so many doubts and that's subject to so many equally valid interpretations must be the driver to mankind? Please... It's insulting.

    But this was about God's omnipotence.
    I don't understand how someone can be satisfied with the answers this Bible gives... It's so incomplete and contradictory. One really has to want to believe something to grab something so incoherent.
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