Does love exist

Originally posted by DragonFriend
But wouldn't a friend be competition? If he helps you kill the animal he should get 1/2 of the meat. That means less for you. Sounds like a bad thing to me.

DF

Not if you couldn't kill the animal by yourself, or risked getting hurt in the process, and having a friend there lessened that risk. Cost-benefit analysis.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
So we can measure chemical changes in the brain. Have any studies been done on a person in prayer? Are the measurements consistent with the measurement taken when a person is talking with someone they love? And if so, would you accept this as evidence of God? If not, why not?

DF

All that would show would be the physical / psycological state of the individual. I'm sure the person in prayer truely believes it to be good, right and nice - so they'll have good feelings, irrespective of whether god exists or not - the persons belief does exist!

Originally posted by DragonFriend
It's all about motivation. Do I do things because I say they are right or because someone else says they are. If I base life on my definition of right, it may change over time.
Let's say I'm all for loving my neighbor. Even though he's a sex offender, he deserves a fresh start. Then my neighbor rapes my wife. Now I'm all for castrating my neighbor, and ble source outside yourself is always better than one you make up as you go, IMO.

DF

I agree that an objective, unchanging set of values has, well, value. But at the end of the day, YOU are still doing the judging of yourself (you're just judging yourself against someone elses standards (and presumably saying sorry when you fall short of those)).

Originally posted by DragonFriend
And vice versa, I'm afraid. The two sides seem to be a war when there's really no reason to be.

Why should scientists care if I delude myself into thinking there's a god. What skin is it off their noses? And yet I've been attacked many times for nothing more than my personal beliefs.

Why should a thiest care if a scientist refused to believe in Go ...[text shortened]... ir and war ensues.

What was Lex Luther's quote, "People are no damn good!"

DF

Yes, I think Lex was right!

Personally, I don't give a damn what you believe. You want to believe in god, or my divine kumquat and that's fine.

My role as a scientist is to understand and explain the world; when people infringe on that, I get rather testy. For example, IDers trying to force schools to teach ID in science class. ID isn't science. It has no place in a science class. Teach it in a religion class - no probs, I don't care. When deej tries to throw sand in the eyes of Joe Q Public by trying to discredit radiometric dating I tend to go nutso. Not at his belief in god, but because of his attempt to undermine good science that people like you and me worked hard, real hard, to get right and educate people about how things work.

If religion keeps to its patch and stops trying to undermine science, then we'll leave it alone, because me, and most contemporary scientists don't really give stuff about it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
IMHO Love is not chemical reactions in the brain. Love is an emotion. Its mechanism is chemical reactions but it is not the reactions themselves any more than a sqare is straight lines or a great work of art is paint brush strokes. Display the art on your computer monitor and the physical substance changes to pixels on the screan but the artwork remains. ...[text shortened]... Christians experience love and praying Muslims or Hindus dont then you might be onto something!

I agree. "Love" isn't one chemical or reaction, it's an interaction of alot of things going on upstairs. One day we'll work alot of this out.

Originally posted by DragonFriend
So, if I understand you, you're saying that we know exactly what love is or how it works and we accept its existance because of that?

DF

What? No. We don't know its exact nature, but whether we accept it as existing is unrelated to a complete description of its parts. For example, lets say you are unable to read. Now I have a book which I show you, you can see, touch, maybe even smell the book. You are sure the book exists. But, unless you are able to read the book, you are unaware of its exact nature. This doesn't stop you from believing the book exists does it?

love is wanting to be near someone/thing.
lust is wanting to use someone/thing.

Originally posted by Kaboooomba
love is wanting to be near someone/thing.
lust is wanting to use someone/thing.

I love driving in my car. Translates to "I want to be near driving in my car"
I want to use my computer today. Translation: "I am lusting for my computer today"

Your definition is wrong and I have noticed throughout this thread that a lot of people do not realise the full set of meanings of the word Love. As I mentioned earlier "The four loves" by C.S. Lewis makes a good attempt at categorising the various meanings and attributes of love. Most love has a very strong selfish component and conditional components and lust in some circumstances is a form of love.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I love driving in my car. Translates to "I want to be near driving in my car"
I want to use my computer today. Translation: "I am lusting for my computer today"

Your definition is wrong and I have noticed throughout this thread that a lot of people do not realise the full set of meanings of the word Love. As I mentioned earlier "The four loves" by C.S ...[text shortened]... ish component and conditional components and lust in some circumstances is a form of love.

well would it be correct if we took away the thing?

you are correct to say lust is a form of love. it is conditional love. true love is unconditional as much as is possible.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
And god is self-evident to deej. Sorry ATY, but we have to put better answers together than this.

I was imprecise. Love is an experience, analogous not to the keyboard but to the image of the keyboard which I experience. Now if DJ were to say God is similar, then God is nothing but a perceptual experience with no existence outside of humans' ability to perceive.

o.k. everyone knows about loving someone, as it is a natural part of life, but as a Christian we are meant to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute against us.

soooo... how are we meant to go about loving our enemies? maybe in some weird way it would be similar to falling in love with someone who don't want you.

To some extent I love my enemies. They're just people trying to live a happy life. I love all people. However there are definitely limits to this love.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
To some extent I love my enemies. They're just people trying to live a happy life. I love all people. However there are definitely limits to this love.

you think love doesn't contain punnishment?