Does man matter, or is he just matter?

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]for dust we shall be when it is all said and done.

this may very well be the reality. i'm not sure that i would call it all vanity, however.[/b]

In Ecclesiastes (“Vanity of vanities, says the teacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 1:2), the Hebrew word habel (heh beit lamed), basically means emptiness—vanity as in a vain, useless or empty gesture. Depending on the vowel-pointing, it can also mean vapor or breath.

The point of the author is pretty much that there is no ultimate meaning or import to life, since in the end—

3:19, 20. For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The author’s answer to this state of affairs—

8:15. So I commend enjoyment, for there is nothing better for people under the sun than to eat, and drink, and enjoy themselves, for this will go with them in their toil through the days of life that God gives them under the sun.

9:7-10. Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has long ago approved what you do. Let your garments always be white; do not let oil be lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that are given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. Whatever your hand finds to do, do with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

So, even if life is “vain” in the end—in that it “goes” nowhere—that does not mean that one cannot find richness and fulfillment in it, and to be grateful for it.

Originally posted by vistesd

So, even if life is “vain” in the end—in that it “goes” nowhere—that does not mean that one cannot find richness and fulfillment in it, and to be grateful for it.

gotcha. thanks. ultimate is a strong word, after all.

btw, i liked the Hafiz poem. do you think we are moon gazing right now?

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]So, even if life is “vain” in the end—in that it “goes” nowhere—that does not mean that one cannot find richness and fulfillment in it, and to be grateful for it.

gotcha. thanks. ultimate is a strong word, after all.

btw, i liked the Hafiz poem. do you think we are moon gazing right now?[/b]

btw, i liked the Hafiz poem. do you think we are moon gazing right now?

Thanks. Yeah, I think we are...🙂 But if we don't take it tooo seriously, maybe that can be music and dance too...

Originally posted by vistesd
In Ecclesiastes (“Vanity of vanities, says the teacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 1:2), the Hebrew word habel (heh beit lamed), basically means emptiness—vanity as in a vain, useless or empty gesture. Depending on the vowel-pointing, it can also mean vapor or breath.

The point of the author is pretty much that there is no ult at does not mean that one cannot find richness and fulfillment in it, and to be grateful for it.

Ecclesiastes 11:9 - Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.

Originally posted by LemonJello
why not just call it life followed by a permanent end to consciousness?

at any rate, i think i see what you are saying, as vistesd's following post expounds upon it. perhaps it is 'vanity'.

I do think there is a reason for matter to matter. 🙂
Kelly

Originally posted by Halitose
Does man matter or is man matter?

Exactly.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do think there is a reason for matter to matter. 🙂
Kelly

I love that!

Originally posted by mokko
You're feeble man brain could not grasp the depth and extent of our underground. Ah yes the kitchen, where women have been slowly but surely poisoning off the male race for hundreds of years. My favorite place to be.

Haven't you noticed how many of us are basically controlled by their wife or girlfriend. I would say half the male population would be considered whipped. I'm single for my own protection and the good of all of us.

Originally posted by frogstomp
where did you get the idea that matter ceases to exist when it's constituent fields expand and what makes you think a "soul" wouldn't be able to curl enough to become part of mass?

Who can say "Pseudoscience"?

And even if we forget about the "constituent field bs, if souls exist and were basically energy, energy doesn't curl up and become mass. Mass could be created but not like that.

Well man (and by that I mean humans mokko) certainly doesn't matter more than any other living thing, people are just another animal. And personally I don't think we matter more than any matter anywhere.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
I'm single for my own protection and the good of all of us.

Best of luck with that! 🙄

Originally posted by mokko
Best of luck with that! 🙄

Actually I'd like some bad luck with that. Thats the best advantage of your conspiracy mokko. Even if we know about it, we surrender anyway.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]You so easily limit God to to being only the God of Man.

When did I limit God to being the only god of man?

Man has many gods, including himself.

How would you possibly know that , Christ didnt limit the Spirit to man , so you shouldn't either.

Are you saying that an animal has a soul?[/b]

Yes, animals have a soul according Genesis 1:20🙂

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
Well man (and by that I mean humans mokko) certainly doesn't matter more than any other living thing, people are just another animal. And personally I don't think we matter more than any matter anywhere.

Matter…

…to whom? I mean, for something to matter—as in having import—it seems to me that it must matter to someone. In other words, “mattering” is a subjective matter. And I sincerely doubt that you do not have some “ranking” that reflects degrees of “mattering”—i.e., that some persons, creatures, things matter to you more than others.

And so, without entirely disagreeing with your sentiments, I think your generalities are a bit empty. Do I “matter” more to the cosmos than does a swallow or a stone? Probably not—but such a question would presume that the cosmos is capable of having things matter to it.

Originally posted by vistesd
Matter…

…to whom? I mean, for something to matter—as in having import—it seems to me that it must matter to someone. In other words, “mattering” is a subjective matter. And I sincerely doubt that you do not have some “ranking” that reflects degrees of “mattering”—i.e., that some persons, creatures, things matter to you more than others.

And s ...[text shortened]... not—but such a question would presume that the cosmos is capable of having things matter to it.

I agree, everything is relative. Not only do people generally matter more to me than the dark matter of the vacuum, but some people certainly mean a lot more to me than others. I was speaking in the larger sense which is how I thought this thread was talking about.