1. Donationkirksey957
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    30 Jul '05 01:32
    I believe that it does, though I cannot see it or touch it. I dream so I think I have evidence of it, though no one else can see my dreams. I have certain behaviors that must be defense mechanisms to hide things that I am afraid of, but people tell me that they are just "behaviors" and indicate nothing. What do you think?
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    30 Jul '05 01:48
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I believe that it does, though I cannot see it or touch it. [...] What do you think?

    Parts of the brain are known to control breathing, heart rate, and digestion. I am not consciously aware of the signals needed to control those items. Therefore, some of the actions of my brain are unconsciously performed. These functions have an effect on my actions.

    I once learned to type. Now, when I want to place text on the screen to communicate with you, I think the words, and my fingers move appropriately. I am not consciously aware of the many decisions needed to type, and since I am not looking at the keyboard, some part of my mind must know where the keys are and be influencing the signals I send to my fingers. Therefore, unconscious memories of learning to type must being accessed and utilized to affect my present actions.

    Therefore, I state that the unconscious mind exists and affects my daily life. While this is not sufficient evidence to state that the same is true for all (or even most) humans, I would tend to believe that it is true rather than isn't true. (of course, a commonly made error in judgment is to assume everyone is either much more like us than they really are, or much different)
  3. Donationkirksey957
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    30 Jul '05 01:55
    Originally posted by echecero

    Parts of the brain are known to control breathing, heart rate, and digestion. I am not consciously aware of the signals needed to control those items. Therefore, some of the actions of my brain are unconsciously performed. These functions have an effect on my actions.

    I once learned to type. Now, when I want to place text on the screen to communicate w ...[text shortened]... gment is to assume everyone is either much more like us than they really are, or much different)
    I will play the role of devil's advocate ( a pun intended). The typing skills of which you speak are the result of what is called a "facilitated pathway" of neurons. The more you practice whatever skill you possess, like pitching a baseball, the better you get at it because the pathway has gotten "wider." This can all be explained very logically.
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    30 Jul '05 02:01
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I will play the role of devil's advocate ( a pun intended). The typing skills of which you speak are the result of what is called a "facilitated pathway" of neurons. The more you practice whatever skill you possess, like pitching a baseball, the better you get at it because the pathway has gotten "wider." This can all be explained very logically.
    I would be fine saying that what is termed the unconscious mind is in part a complicated series of facilitated pathways of neurons.

    This concept seems not unlike the manner in which computer hardware is "programmed", and everything I would associate with the unconscious could be managed by a sophisticated computer, if it were able to interface with my body.

    In fact, it seems likely that the human brain is merely a sophisticated analog computer with reflection capabilities and a sophisticated set of input and output devices.
  5. Standard memberkrisvictor
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    30 Jul '05 07:27
    I must wholeheartedly agree that the unconcious exist. She lays by my side every night making these cute little snoring sounds that lull me, eventually, to unconciousness myself. 🙂
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    30 Jul '05 09:23
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    I believe that it does, though I cannot see it or touch it. I dream so I think I have evidence of it, though no one else can see my dreams. I have certain behaviors that must be defense mechanisms to hide things that I am afraid of, but people tell me that they are just "behaviors" and indicate nothing. What do you think?
    According to Freud it does, that is where our primal urges reside. Also according to Freud we have an ego, but we cannot see or touch that either, as indeed we cannot see or touch our mind, only the brain can be empiriclly proven.
  7. Standard memberWulebgr
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    30 Jul '05 10:11
    Try this:

    Hold a pendulum (one of your olympic medals works fine) steady between your thumb and finger with your elbow supported on a knee or table.

    Now, concentrate intently on a question to which the answer in undeniably yes. What happens to the pendulum? Now change your focus to another question, one to which th eanswer must be no. Now which direction is the pendulum swnging?
    No think of a question with an uncertain answer. Again the pendulum?

    Now, explain your observations without reference to the subconscious.
  8. Donationkirksey957
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    30 Jul '05 15:29
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Try this:

    Hold a pendulum (one of your olympic medals works fine) steady between your thumb and finger with your elbow supported on a knee or table.

    Now, concentrate intently on a question to which the answer in undeniably yes. What happens to the pendulum? Now change your focus to another question, one to which th eanswer must be no. Now which directi ...[text shortened]... er. Again the pendulum?

    Now, explain your observations without reference to the subconscious.
    OK, I did that. Nothing happened.

    However, I have been known to go to sleep with a dilemma and I do believe that my unconscious solved the problem for me. I have no way of explaining this "apparition."

    I am hoping that this thread also has some relevence to another thread about the existence of God.
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    31 Jul '05 04:22
    yes, absolutely the unconscious exists and it it unfortunately the least understood concept. if you think of biology and how the physical body had evolved and changed over many many thousands of years, well the same is true of the unconscious. consciousness sprang from unconsciousness many many moons ago. im trying to get to the point...to properly understand the unconscious, you must first consider the bigger picture here, namely the psyche of man. to oversimplify things in the extreme:the psyche can be divided into two halves-the conscious side of things like analytical thinking and the unconscious side of things where the instincts still rules supreme.

    The unconscious has a strong compensatory function. the unconscious has an autonomous nature and you never know when something from this vast storehouse will present itself only to confuse you and make you ask yourself the question-where the hell did that come from. As a storehouse of information,emotions, suppressed feelings and memories the unconscious acts very much like the garbage man who takes away your trash when things start to stack up. The mind can only focus on so much information at a time so when thoughts,images,concepts lose their psychic energy then they drift below the threshold of consciousness into the unconscious and they remain in a dormant state unless they are brought back into consciousness for whatever reason.
    now, to complicate things further, there are different levels of consciousness: there is first of all your personal unconscious, you know , that place where you find yourself after you fall asleep, this is where all your memories,complexes, and secret fears reside. But, there is also the collective unconscious . this is a deep deep sea and very much misunderstood and even its very existence is denied by many... many fools i might add. The collective unconscious is like a stream that constantly in motion, autonomous and this is where the archetypes are.
  10. Standard memberWulebgr
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    31 Jul '05 08:08
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    OK, I did that. Nothing happened.
    You're not concentrating hard enough. It always works for me.
  11. Standard memberDavid C
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    02 Aug '05 00:45
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    However, I have been known to go to sleep with a dilemma and I do believe that my unconscious solved the problem for me. I have no way of explaining this "apparition."
    Rev, have you ever experienced "lucid" dreaming? This might lead one to believe that the un- or sub- concious is very much accessible.
  12. Donationkirksey957
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    02 Aug '05 00:48
    Originally posted by David C
    Rev, have you ever experienced "lucid" dreaming? This might lead one to believe that the un- or sub- concious is very much accessible.
    Say some more.
  13. Standard memberDavid C
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    02 Aug '05 02:07
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Say some more.
    I'm sure you recognize the term. It is the state of dreaming while aware. I have personally experienced it on numerous occasions, although at this point there has been little use to me. I find my "self" sitting and staring at the alarm clock, and waking myself one minute before it's due to trip...because I really dislike the sound of it.

    It may, in part, be responsible for the phenomena you described eariler in the post, that of solving a particular dilemma during your sleep. Unfortunately, I haven't pursued the thought beyond its' bare basics. According to the Wikipedia entry on lucid dreaming, Stanford is actually investigating at an academic level.

    All I can really tell you is that the next time you are dreaming, look for your hands.
  14. Hmmm . . .
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    02 Aug '05 02:12
    Originally posted by David C
    I'm sure you recognize the term. It is the state of dreaming while aware. I have personally experienced it on numerous occasions, although at this point there has been little use to me. I find my "self" sitting and staring at the alarm clock, and waking myself one minute before it's due to trip...because I really dislike the sound of it.

    It may, in pa ...[text shortened]... level.

    All I can really tell you is that the next time you are dreaming, look for your hands.
    All I can really tell you is that the next time you are dreaming, look for your hands.

    Sounds like Carlos Castaneda….
  15. Standard memberDavid C
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    02 Aug '05 02:20
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Sounds like Carlos Castaneda….
    Indeed. Castaneda drew lucid dreaming into his new age shamanism, thereby consigning it to "flakiness".
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