Spirituality
10 Apr 22
@divegeester saidSimilar is the verse just before this. Mark 2:21, which says,
Mark 2:22
“And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”
Thoughts on what this parable/analogy is referring to?
"No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse."
Jesus is saying that he didn't come to patch up an old system. One cannot take what he is teaching and patch it into the old ways. In fact, his ministry is something completely new, and as such, requires a new framework to contain it. Jesus didn't come to destroy the old, the law, but to fulfill it, just like an acorn is fulfilled when it grows into an oak tree. The acorn seems to be gone, but its purpose is fulfilled with something new.
10 Apr 22
@suzianne saidWell said!
Similar is the verse just before this. Mark 2:21, which says,
"No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse."
Jesus is saying that he didn't come to patch up an old system. One cannot take what he is teaching and patch it into the old ways. In fact, his ministry ...[text shortened]... rows into an oak tree. The acorn seems to be gone, but its purpose is fulfilled with something new.
10 Apr 22
@suzianne saidAt the wedding the best wine being served last is a metaphor for the outpouring of the spirit over the generations, dispensations.
Similar is the verse just before this. Mark 2:21, which says,
"No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse."
Jesus is saying that he didn't come to patch up an old system. One cannot take what he is teaching and patch it into the old ways. In fact, his ministry ...[text shortened]... rows into an oak tree. The acorn seems to be gone, but its purpose is fulfilled with something new.
The wineskins I think are not just systems, they are people, followers of God, Christians. God cannot pour new revelation of himself into old wineskins who are part of the, as you put it, old system.
10 Apr 22
@divegeester saidWhy would someone be so brittle as to thumb down this OP I wonder.
Mark 2:22
“And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”
Thoughts on what this parable/analogy is referring to?
10 Apr 22
@divegeester saidNo idea, it is a good question so I imagine you are being treated as someone does FMF making it personal nor substantive. It is sad.
Why would someone be so brittle as to thumb down this OP I wonder.
11 Apr 22
@divegeester saidBut people can adapt. People are flexible, unlike the 'old ways'. They can learn.
At the wedding the best wine being served last is a metaphor for the outpouring of the spirit over the generations, dispensations.
The wineskins I think are not just systems, they are people, followers of God, Christians. God cannot pour new revelation of himself into old wineskins who are part of the, as you put it, old system.
And Christians are indeed adopters of the 'new ways' of Christianity. There was nothing like what Jesus came to do. 'Salvation' was a totally new idea, so it required a new system built from the ground up.
@suzianne saidClearly that is not what the Bible teaches as exemplified through the analogy of the wineskins, nor in fact throughout the entire journey of God’s people since the beginning.
But people can adapt. People are flexible, unlike the 'old ways'. They can learn.
And Christians are indeed adopters of the 'new ways' of Christianity. There was nothing like what Jesus came to do. 'Salvation' was a totally new idea, so it required a new system built from the ground up.
With each outpouring of God’s spirit there has come with it a new revelation of God, of Jesus Christ. The wineskins parable is particularly relevant in the contemporary world, in the last days, when God has said he will “pour out his spirit” (Act 2:17 and also in Joel).
How can we receive whatever revelation it is God is wanting to reveal if we have “stopped seeking” and have become trapped in the rigid man-made dogma which grew of out of last outpouring, or even the one before that.
No, people are not “flexible”. I don’t know what you mean by “new ways”, but the outpouring of God’s spirit is nothing to do with systems, dogmas, denominations. It is about the deeper truths of God and a further revelation of Jesus Christ.
What I see, particularly in this forum, is a ridged, inflexible, dogmatic adherence to the “old ways” (to use your term). Dogma replaces life.
Don’t be old wineskins.
@divegeester saidI understand you thought it meant a way for you to slag off on some Christians here. That is, after all, what you do.
Clearly that is not what the Bible teaches as exemplified through the analogy of the wineskins, nor in fact throughout the entire journey of God’s people since the beginning.
With each outpouring of God’s spirit there has come with it a new revelation of God, of Jesus Christ. The wineskins parable is particularly relevant in the contemporary world, in the last days, wh ...[text shortened]... tic adherence to the “old ways” (to use your term). Dogma replaces life.
Don’t be old wineskins.
However, I assure you, the Bible has no idea of what you are claiming, and so, I think you'll find, if you look up some commentary from people who understand the Bible, that I'm right. Christian ways ARE the 'new ways'. The 'old ways' were what came before, notably, the jewish Mosaic model of retribution without salvation. As you know, "Jesus saves" (the 'new wine' ), but the Mosaic model doesn't include Jesus. It is the old wineskin.
No matter how much you want to jam your square peg into the round hole, and blame Christians.
@suzianne saidThis is a discussion, so rather than devolving into your usual scornful abuse why don’t you provide some evidence and discourse to support this “assured” claim you are making, instead of suggesting I run off and do it for you.
I understand you thought it meant a way for you to slag off on some Christians here. That is, after all, what you do.
However, I assure you, the Bible has no idea of what you are claiming, and so, I think you'll find, if you look up some commentary from people who understand the Bible, that I'm right. Christian ways ARE the 'new ways'. The 'old ways' were what came bef ...[text shortened]... in.
No matter how much you want to jam your square peg into the round hole, and blame Christians.
There is an assertion in my OP which is extended in my subsequent post, both of which are supported with scripture and biblical rational. Address that and stay on topic.
@divegeester saidThe new way is grace through faith; do you think it is something else?
This is a discussion, so rather than devolving into your usual scornful abuse why don’t you provide some evidence and discourse to support this “assured” claim you are making, instead of suggesting I run off and do it for you.
There is an assertion in my OP which is extended in my subsequent post, both of which are supported with scripture and biblical rational. Address that and stay on topic.
