Drugs and spirituality

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
sounds like garbage, theyre just high thats all, drugs are illegal here anyways.

This is exactly the type of idiot easily targeted by the media and pharmaceutical companies.

Originally posted by amannion
Yeah, I take your point.
But we don't go on too much about alcohol for example - if used in moderation - and it hasn't got much to do with the pharmaceutical companies.
I think your view is probably a little narrow.

Alcohol and pharmaceutically produced and sold drugs are all subject to government taxes. Stands to reason that the government wouldn't pass legislation that would minimise their income.

I would even go so far as to suggest that the only reason currently illicit drugs such as MDMA, LSD, or even marijuana remain illegal is that the government hasn't yet found a way to tax them, with the influential religious lobby groups (representing an even larger source of income and support) opposed to these potentially mind-expanding substances as a threat to their one-track minds and beliefs.

Originally posted by whiterose
I think that your problem with drugs may be a modern one, in that I don't think traditional use of drugs produced memory and focus problems as they were used sparingly for ritual purposes and not overused as they are today. That being said, the brain ages just like the rest of the body, so whose to say that your problems with memory and focus are a result ...[text shortened]... ual drug use you would be in an advanced state of alzeimer's y now. The mind is a funny thing.

No such thing as a modern problem, people have always overdone it on drugs, and always will. Diseases such as Alhzeimer's have only been specifically known about for about 100 years. Earlier in timepeople thought dementia had something to do with evil spirits. Just because people didn't know about the link between some drugs and mental illness doesn't mean that it wasn't true.

Originally posted by mrstabby
No such thing as a modern problem, people have always overdone it on drugs, and always will. Diseases such as Alhzeimer's have only been specifically known about for about 100 years. Earlier in timepeople thought dementia had something to do with evil spirits. Just because people didn't know about the link between some drugs and mental illness doesn't mean that it wasn't true.

I never said that drugs can't be a factor in causing mental illness, just that if you have mental problems it is not necessarily the result of doing too many drugs, Alhzeimer's being one example of this.

Originally posted by mrstabby
No such thing as a modern problem, people have always overdone it on drugs, and always will. Diseases such as Alhzeimer's have only been specifically known about for about 100 years. Earlier in timepeople thought dementia had something to do with evil spirits. Just because people didn't know about the link between some drugs and mental illness doesn't mean that it wasn't true.

While there is certainly the potential for degredation of one's health from any drug use (or any use of anything, really... when you think about it), humans do have a tradition of sacrificing physical (or mental?) health for the benefit of spiritual enlightenment, experience, etc. Take shamanic practices of fasting, and in some cases sleep deprivation as examples. Or monks who meditate almost naked in the snow. Or Jesus apparently running off into the wilderness for 40 days with no food.

Originally posted by whiterose
I never said that drugs can't be a factor in causing mental illness, just that if you have mental problems it is not necessarily the result of doing too many drugs, Alhzeimer's being one example of this.

Misread the post, I thought you were saying that people never used to take too many drugs.

Originally posted by JRambo
While there is certainly the potential for degredation of one's health from any drug use (or any use of anything, really... when you think about it), humans do have a tradition of sacrificing physical (or mental?) health for the benefit of spiritual enlightenment, experience, etc. Take shamanic practices of fasting, and in some cases sleep deprivation as exam ...[text shortened]... aked in the snow. Or Jesus apparently running off into the wilderness for 40 days with no food.

Yup... and it's totally worth it😉

Originally posted by whiterose
This is exactly the type of idiot easily targeted by the media and pharmaceutical companies.

i dont give a damn about the media.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i dont give a damn about the media.

you don't give a damn about the media, yet I wonder where you got this idea that "drugs are illegal". Last time I checked, you could buy then at the pharmacy and in the supermarket and get as high as you liked. But wait, according to the media those aren't drugs, and they can't be bad for you becuase they're sold by big companies. Hmm....

Originally posted by whiterose
you don't give a damn about the media, yet I wonder where you got this idea that "drugs are illegal". Last time I checked, you could buy then at the pharmacy and in the supermarket and get as high as you liked. But wait, according to the media those aren't drugs, and they can't be bad for you becuase they're sold by big companies. Hmm....

drugs are illegal unless you are talking about medicine drugs which you know well i didnt mean those drugs i meant the harmful ones. in America the harmful drugs are illegal, except for alcohol and tobacco.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
drugs are illegal unless you are talking about medicine drugs which you know well i didnt mean those drugs i meant the harmful ones. in America the harmful drugs are illegal, except for alcohol and tobacco.

do you actually mean to say that only drugs which are illegal are harmful? You could only have gotten that opinion from media brainwashing, as all scientific evidence will tell you otherwise. Go look at any bottle of painkillers, cough supressant, or any over the counter drug. Read the label and look at the possible HARMFUL effects stated on it. They're right there, I guarantee it, and these are just low dose drugs that you can buy yourself. Try looking at the label of some perscription drugs. Some of those have seriously harmful effects.
And as for medicinal, do you think because a drug is illegal means it has no medicinal use, because that is absolutely not true. Heroine is a direct derivative of morphine, proably the most potent painkiller know to man (more addictive than heroine by the way and still used in hospitals today for severe pain). Cocaine is an excelent local anaesthetic widely used by doctors until it was banned for political reasons. Cannabis is an excelent appetite stimulant and cure for glaucoma, and is so widely recognised as such that it has been decriminalised in many states. So the line between legal and illegal drugs is a political, not a medicinal one, and I personally believe the scientists over the media and politicians any day.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
drugs are illegal unless you are talking about medicine drugs which you know well i didnt mean those drugs i meant the harmful ones. in America the harmful drugs are illegal, except for alcohol and tobacco.

Drugs, in the context you seem to be referring to them, may well be illegal, but does that mean that they have no use in spiritual exploration?

If you were in a country where Christianity was outlawed, would you still practice Christianity?

Also, unless you're in Australia or Sweden, salvia divinorum is a legally available entheogen which has a long history of shamanic use in South/Central America.

Drugs (including alcohol) gave me some of the best experiences of my life and some of the worst. I think the effect they had at first was one of discovery and enlightenment, but quite quickly confusion and paranoia set in, and after a longer time I had feelings of isolation. It got a bit boring and depressing and it became a very unhealthy focus in my life.

I'm so glad I was able to find new direction a few years ago. Life is much easier and more satisfying without drugs.

The whole spititual thing is an illusion in my opinion, I feel just as spiritual now as I did before, possibly more so.

Originally posted by twiceaknight
Drugs (including alcohol) gave me some of the best experiences of my life and some of the worst. I think the effect they had at first was one of discovery and enlightenment, but quite quickly confusion and paranoia set in, and after a longer time I had feelings of isolation. It got a bit boring and depressing and it became a very unhealthy focus in my l ...[text shortened]... g is an illusion in my opinion, I feel just as spiritual now as I did before, possibly more so.

As a serious question, what's your new direction, and how'd you come to find it?

Originally posted by JRambo
As a serious question, what's your new direction, and how'd you come to find it?

Since you asked, I reached rock bottom and in desperation started to think about what I could do with my life. I lay on my bed in my horrible little room and considered what skills/ abilities I had that could be useful to someone else.

It might sound stupid but one thing I realised I could do was speak English, and I live in a city full of people trying to learn it. As I lay there I visualised what it might be like to teach English and decided I had nothing to lose by giving it a go.

I now had a goal, and when I sat up on that bed I knew (and was aware I knew) that my life had just changed for the better.

I got onto a training course and I loved it, which is lucky because teaching is not for everyone, and I was fortunate enough to have the necessary qualifications to get on the course in the first place. At the moment I am doing very well in my career. There were many setbacks but I stuck at it. I had no plan B anyway.

Over the next few years I allowed Alan carr's 'The only way to stop smoking' book/concept to help me beat all my addictions one by one.

Another way of putting it is that lying on that bed I visualised a better life and went for it 100%. My life is now by no means perfect, but I consider myself to be very lucky to have found an occupation I enjoy that people will pay me for. This was the difference that made the difference.

That's my story (so far...).