Earthquakes......

Originally posted by galveston75
May I ask what makes you think God is doing this to us? If he was behind this why would he have his son give us warnings thru these sign or events in the Bible for all of us to see? And if he caused these things why would apparently good people suffer too?
Finally why would the God that created us out of love do these terrible things to us?

Well let's just clarify - as I think should be obvious from my posts - I don't believe god is doing anything, I don't believe there exists in this universe any such beings as gods (or fairies, ghosts, vampires, werewolves and tooth fairies for that matter), I don't believe god is a he, I don't believe it had a son, I don't believe that it 'spoke' to us through any book, and I don't believe what happens in the real world is a sign of anything other than the real world doing what it does.
But my point was, if god was trying to save everyone, then why would it kill? Now, if you're arguing that god isn't killing, then my question - were I a believer - would be, what is? Isn't god supposed to be omnipotent and in charge of everything?

Your final question is exactly what I would ask you (minus the he of course) ...

Originally posted by amannion
Well let's just clarify - as I think should be obvious from my posts - I don't believe god is doing anything, I don't believe there exists in this universe any such beings as gods (or fairies, ghosts, vampires, werewolves and tooth fairies for that matter), I don't believe god is a he, I don't believe it had a son, I don't believe that it 'spoke' to us thro ...[text shortened]... r final question is exactly what I would ask you (minus the [b]he of course) ...[/b]

Well as you don't believe in a God you no doubt don't believe in a devil or Satan. So it would be hard to explain those points to you. But in real life as we see on this earth it's usually the greedy, uncaring humans that cause harm on the rest of us that hopefully have our heads on straight and not looking to harm our neighbors. So if you were to see someday that there is really a God that does care and a real devil that doesn't, then you could see why the earth has so many problems and why badness is directed towards humans and which also has so much influance on so many in bad ways.
As far as natural disasters such as earthquakes, that is simply the earth doing what it does and not in anyway used by God to punish humans.
And yes God is in charge of everything. But the Bible explains clearly that for a time period, because of mankinds not accepting God as our Father or providor or protector from the Garden of Eden up to this point, he has allowed Satan to rule this planet and has basically let him have his way with it.
But the Bible also explains that soon he will remove Satan and bring the earth and mankind that wants his rulership, back to it's original purpose.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well as you don't believe in a God you no doubt don't believe in a devil or Satan. So it would be hard to explain those points to you. But in real life as we see on this earth it's usually the greedy, uncaring humans that cause harm on the rest of us that hopefully have our heads on straight and not looking to harm our neighbors. So if you were to see so ...[text shortened]... an and bring the earth and mankind that wants his rulership, back to it's original purpose.

But it's sort of a circular argument don't you think?

I believe in gods and devils.
Why do you believe this?
Because it's all there in the bible.
But what's the evidence for the truth of this bible?
Well, because all the predictions it makes come true.
But isn't that just you selectively picking passages to suit your claim?
No. God tells me its true.
And where does god do this?
In the bible.

Are there people that do bad things? Of course, there always have been. In fact, many of us who think we're pretty good do bad things at one time or another in our lives. (I'm tipping even Jesus and Budhha have some things in their past they'd be happy to keep quiet.) But so what? There have always been people doing bad things. What's different about this time?
You seem to be arguing that there's more bad things happening. I'm not sure what your evidence for this is, other than that you've heard about more things happening.
Is hearing about more things happening evidence that there are more things happening? No, it's just evidence that we hear about more bad things.
What could explain that? Well, there might be more bad things, or, maybe we live at a time when fast, mass communication has become the norm.
Hmmm, let me think about which one is more likely, while I twiddle with my computer and broadband newtork access next to my mobile phone, in front of my TV ...

Originally posted by amannion
But it's sort of a circular argument don't you think?

I believe in gods and devils.
Why do you believe this?
Because it's all there in the bible.
But what's the evidence for the truth of this bible?
Well, because all the predictions it makes come true.
But isn't that just you selectively picking passages to suit your claim?
No. ...[text shortened]... omputer and broadband newtork access next to my mobile phone, in front of my TV ...

And predictions that were written down by men that had no idea what the future was going to be like is a reason not to believe in the Bible and it's prophicies? Humm!!!
And sure we hear more today then even a hundred years ago. But ask a Boarder Patrol Guard on the US and Mexico border if things are still the same they were just 20 years ago? Or all the living relatives of the 35,000+ that were killed along those boarders last year.
Ask the millions of children right before they die tomorrow from starvation that is the cause of the constant wars that are a direct result of power hungry and greedy men that want to control helpless humans for $$$$$ gain!
Ask the workers that have to clean up oil stained beaches and vital marsh areas we all need for sealife to grow in and then the ones that have to clean what animals they can save if at all from being covered with oil.
Do I need to continue?

Originally posted by galveston75
And predictions that were written down by men that had no idea what the future was going to be like is a reason not to believe in the Bible and it's prophicies? Humm!!!
And sure we hear more today then even a hundred years ago. But ask a Boarder Patrol Guard on the US and Mexico border if things are still the same they were just 20 years ago? Or all th ...[text shortened]... ean what animals they can save if at all from being covered with oil.
Do I need to continue?

Well if you must ...
I can run through my own list of the crap in our world, but that's only half the story isn't it?
There are plenty of good stories happening across the globe every day. People cleaning up after environmental disasters, people pledging support to victims of earthquakes and floods, people helping the sick and homeless, people feeding the hungry and desparate, people inventing life saving technologies, and on it goes.
Yes there's bad stuff. Yes it's pretty desparate out there.
But it's also pretty good too.
How do you reconcile that?
I'm actually asking you. How do you reconcile that?
I accept that for an obvious statement of the world - there's good and there's bad.

By all means, cling to your desparate and nihilistic vision of the world as entering some golden age prophesied 2000 years ago. I'll stick with reality myself. It might be a bit crappy sometimes, but it's also pretty damned nice sometimes too.

Originally posted by galveston75
And predictions that were written down by men that had no idea what the future was going to be like is a reason not to believe in the Bible and it's prophicies? Humm!!!
And sure we hear more today then even a hundred years ago. But ask a Boarder Patrol Guard on the US and Mexico border if things are still the same they were just 20 years ago? Or all th ...[text shortened]... ean what animals they can save if at all from being covered with oil.
Do I need to continue?

I prophecise that there will be an outbreak of some nasty disease at some unspecified place, and time in the future...at the time that occurs, there will be a heavy rainfall. Moreover of the many that aren't 'eaten' from within they themselves shall not eat. Stores will be looted and high walls breached.


All I need now is for someone to mention this whenever a situation can be pattern matched to fit this 'prophecy' sometime n the future; possibly years, or decades, or centuries...doesn't matter - when the time comes, I prophecised it!

Originally posted by amannion
Well if you must ...
I can run through my own list of the crap in our world, but that's only half the story isn't it?
There are plenty of good stories happening across the globe every day. People cleaning up after environmental disasters, people pledging support to victims of earthquakes and floods, people helping the sick and homeless, people feeding th ...[text shortened]... f. It might be a bit crappy sometimes, but it's also pretty damned nice sometimes too.

I'm glad you see the good in it and so do I and more importantly...so does God.

Originally posted by galveston75
I'm glad you see the good in it and so do I and more importantly...so does God.

And yet this god of yours keeps letting all the crap go on ...

Originally posted by galveston75
It seems like an easy statement to understand that as compared to other times in my life, I've had more people make simple statements as to the crazy and unsure things that have been happening lately on the world scene. Nothing more.

So why did you make the statement? What did you mean by it? You say the signs are not recent, and not even within your life time, so how are a few more simple statements by acquaintances related to any of this?

And the signs are the ones that Jesus clearly said in his statements in Matt the 24th chapter. You can read that in any bible. And what one does when they read that is up to them to either take it serious or not.
So you continue to avoid listing them? Why is that? Why are you finding it so hard?

It seems to me with those signs happening now even if one does not want to believe it, one with any care for their future should at least look into this a little.
Why do you keep repeating all that about people not wanting to believe it or not being able to see etc? Is it some sort of excuse you give yourself as to why you cannot explain what these signs are to other people?

Originally posted by RJHinds
My advice is to leave twhitehead alone. He will not understand,
because he does not want there to be a God to judge him.

So do you also believe that because I am atheist, I cannot count wars, feel earthquakes etc? Do you also see the signs in question? Are you able to describe them, or are you too bound to secrecy by some spiritual force?
And next time you feel compelled to lie to other people about my motivations for being atheist - don't.

Originally posted by galveston75
Absolutley not so your completely wrong about that. I really hope your not serious that any normal human being would wish that on anyone. It completely makes me sick to see these things happen and truly hope for the day when they won't.
For your information there were at least 5 Kingdom Halls destroyed and many Witnesses killed in that flood. You shoul ...[text shortened]... es as Robbie said you show how little you know of the Bible and God himself. How cruel you are.

I'm not saying you want people to be killed, but it's an unavoidable fact that for paradise to return to earth and the prophecy to be fulfilled, as you believe it will, people are going to die, and lots of them.

You want the prophecy fulfilled? You want the better earth? Well then massive amounts of people have to be killed and an immense amount of suffering, as in Japan at the moment, has to happen beforehand.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I'm not saying you want people to be killed, but it's an unavoidable fact that for paradise to return to earth and the prophecy to be fulfilled, as you believe it will, people are going to die, and lots of them.

You want the prophecy fulfilled? You want the better earth? Well then massive amounts of people have to be killed and an immense amount of suffering, as in Japan at the moment, has to happen beforehand.

yes, but that does not mean dear Noobster that one feels good about it. No one likes to see suffering, even i was somewhat taken aback by the statement. Our brothers in Japan are known throughout our organisation for their zeal, no one comes close to them, its a national characteristic that they like to do things together, and thus what you have is one great example after another.

That the prophecy shall see fulfilment is one thing, but if you notice, it mentions the term 'pangs of distress', which is a term associated with childbirth an incredibly painful experience for a women, yet when the tribulation is over, she forgets her pain because of the joy of a new life having been brought into the world., thus no one wants to see suffering and certainly no one feels good about it although like you say, it is a feature of the prophecy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, but that does not mean dear Noobster that one feels good about it. No one likes to see suffering, even i was somewhat taken aback by the statement. Our brothers in Japan are known throughout our organisation for their zeal, no one comes close to them, its a national characteristic that they like to do things together, and thus what you have is ...[text shortened]... d certainly no one feels good about it although like you say, it is a feature of the prophecy.

I wasn't saying he was happy that people were being killed or enduring suffering. But it's quite evident that Galvo thinks he sees the prophecy being fulfilled as of late. The fact that the prophecy is being fulfilled, in his eyes anyway, is a good thing for him. So when he watches these events unfold on tv, i have no doubt he feels the same shock and sadness as every other person on the planet, but there has to be another emotion because these events represent something else for him, and you also i guess.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I wasn't saying he was happy that people were being killed or enduring suffering. But it's quite evident that Galvo thinks he sees the prophecy being fulfilled as of late. The fact that the prophecy is being fulfilled, in his eyes anyway, is a good thing for him. So when he watches these events unfold on tv, i have no doubt he feels the same shock and sa ...[text shortened]... e another emotion because these events represent something else for him, and you also i guess.

Ok, I apologise, i picked it up wrong, as I think did the G-man,

actually when i was watching the events unfold with mouth wide open and jaw scraping on the floor i never thought of any prophecy, i was too consumed with the catastrophe. These events represent a beginning of the fulfilment of a prophecy, which portends a 'great tribulation', which shall come upon the entire inhabited earth, us included, its difficult to feel good about that dear Noobster, as you can imagine.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Ok, I apologise, i picked it up wrong, as I think did the G-man,

actually when i was watching the events unfold with mouth wide open and jaw scraping on the floor i never thought of any prophecy, i was too consumed with the catastrophe. These events represent a beginning of the fulfilment of a prophecy, which portends a 'great tribulation', whic ...[text shortened]... d earth, us included, its difficult to feel good about that dear Noobster, as you can imagine.

No need to apologise.

And no need to fear the 'great tribulation', it's just a story.