Educate your YEC 2: evolution is GRADUAL

Originally posted by lemon lime
We can toss a log on a fire and watch until it's consumed by the fire. But logic doesn't presume we can then reverse the process and pull that same log out of the fire after it's been consumed. By the same token a memory can be forgotten. But we can't "by the same logic" recall a memory that is no longer there. If God has the capacity and willingness to f ...[text shortened]... on't be throwing it up in our faces later on... because the memory of it will literally be gone.

But, if God can do all things then the entropy problem associated with recovering the log shouldn't be a problem for Him. Forgive and forget are different things.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I did drugs back in the early 70s, but I've been clean for the past 40 years. ?

Mmmmm. Perhaps that explains it.
Long term damage.
Irreversible.
Sad.

Originally posted by DeepThought
But, if God can do all things then the entropy problem associated with recovering the log shouldn't be a problem for Him. Forgive and forget are different things.

True, but there's a difference between what God is able to do and what he is willing to do. Absolute power and control necessarily means he is able to do what no man can do, so trying to compare God to man or man with God completely misses the point.

Atheists will argue that God is simply an invention of mans mind, so they naturally assume God is nothing more than some ideal and all powerful version of a man. Nothing could be further from the truth even if God was nothing more than an invention of imagination, because how he is explained and defined doesn't come anywhere close to what we know about people.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i seem to remember you being a decent debater. this idiocy you display as of late is most unsettling. are you an imposter?

I suppose you deserve a straight answer, so I'll ignore your implication that I might be an idiot or someone else who has taken over this account.

Your position on evolution makes little sense to me. If you claimed to be an atheist who believes in the God of the Bible that would make little sense to me as well. Some Christians believe God may have created life through a process of evolution. Would you be surprised to learn this idea was first broached by evolutionists who sincerely believe there is no God? So if they don't believe in the existence of God then why do you suppose they were willing to offer this scenario as a compromise?


Debate is all about persuasion using facts and reasoning. But if it lacks any real thought or adherence to reality then it's simply influence peddling for the sake of advancing an agenda.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Debate is all about persuasion using facts and reasoning. But if it lacks any real thought or adherence to reality then it's simply influence peddling for the sake of advancing an agenda.

ID in a nutshell.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Your position on evolution makes little sense to me.

What do you believe his position on evolution is?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Yeah, I guess I am trolling when I point out the pseudoscience BS in those YEC politically motivated video's that RJ keeps posting. Yep, I'm the assshole for pointing out the twisted logic of those dudes.

You have never pointed out any twisted logic of those dudes. In fact you can not refute them by logic and reason, but attempt to use ad hominem attacks instead.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Some Christians believe God may have created life through a process of evolution.

"Some" .... like the Catholic Church!

Originally posted by wolfgang59
"Some" .... like the Catholic Church!

No. Only ignorant or stupid people.

The pope said. “Evolution in nature is not opposed to the notion of Creation, because evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/10/27/pope-francis-evolution-inconsistent-notion-creation/

The Pope does not believe in Darwinian evolution as is pointed out in the article, but atheists evolutionists are actually opposed to creation by God.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If you believe that your god can "forget" then that iis contrary to what most
Christians on here say about god living "outside of time".

Do you believe time is the same for god as us?

If you believe that your god can "forget" then that iis contrary to what most
Christians on here say about god living "outside of time".

I don't see how those two statements can be contrary unless they are related in some way. How are they related?

Do you believe time is the same for god as us?

No.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]If you believe that your god can "forget" then that iis contrary to what most
Christians on here say about god living "outside of time".

I don't see how those two statements can be contrary unless they are related in some way. How are they related?

Do you believe time is the same for god as us?

No.[/b]

If god can forget something that means there are two distinct moments
for him. One where he remembers and one where he does not. That is
contrary to him existing "outside of time" and experiencing the whole of
eternity in one go.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I suppose you deserve a straight answer, so I'll ignore your implication that I might be an idiot or someone else who has taken over this account.

Your position on evolution makes little sense to me. If you claimed to be an atheist who believes in the God of the Bible that would make little sense to me as well. Some Christians believe God may have crea ...[text shortened]... or adherence to reality then it's simply influence peddling for the sake of advancing an agenda.

"Would you be surprised to learn this idea was first broached by evolutionists who sincerely believe there is no God?"
i would be surprised indeed since it is a blatant lie.
evolutionists, theists or atheists, do not need god in their theories. they do not need to compromise.

evolution stands on its own and doesn't disprove or prove God, no more than the theory of gravitation can be used to bake cookies. they are two different issued with no connection to one another.

"Your position on evolution makes little sense to me"
it doesn't have to.

"So if they don't believe in the existence of God then why do you suppose they were willing to offer this scenario as a compromise?"
they wouldn't be. no evolutionist worth is salt would agree to include god as a cause for evolution. at most they would agree evolution doesn't disprove god because of course it doesn't. evolution doesn't say anything about god, only about the evolution of life.


"Debate is all about persuasion using facts and reasoning"
so in this thread, what facts and reasoning did you use while insulting twhite and doing nothing else? (certainly not debating on the topic)

"if it lacks any real thought or adherence to reality"
whose reality? yours? evolution is not up for debate. it is scientific fact. the only thing we can discuss is the exact particulars under which it happened.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If god can forget something that means there are two distinct moments
for him. One where he remembers and one where he does not. That is
contrary to him existing "outside of time" and experiencing the whole of
eternity in one go.

I don't see it as being two distinct moments. I believe 'remembering' for God would be much different than it is for man, because it wouldn't involve the same physical act of remembering as it would for us. For him remembering and knowing are pretty much the same things, so there is no real 'remembering' in that sense... it's more like knowing, or consummate awareness.

Existing outside of time does not mean the whole of reality is in a box, and God is sitting outside of that box. What I believe it means is God is not held back by the limitations of his creation. We have the three coordinates of space designating physical reality with a fourth dimensional coordinate signifying movement within that space, and there are limitations to what we are able to do within this framework... but limitations and aspects of Gods creation (all of it, including time and space) do not automatically apply to him (the creator).

Here's an analogy of what I mean: If I build (create) a simple four legged table, it has no inherent mobility or ability to move other objects. It has limitations I do not have and do not apply to me. So for me, God existing outside of time simply means he doesn't possess the same limitations as the reality he created, including the limitations we humans experience. I can't instantly transport myself from one place or time to another because of limitations placed on me by this physical reality. But it would be nonsense for me to assume God has somehow become limited (the limitations that apply to me) by his own creation. This would be like me assuming that after I've built a simple four legged table I will have lost the ability to be mobile and move other objects.

Simply put, the creator is not limited by his creation.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Would you be surprised to learn this idea was first broached by evolutionists who sincerely believe there is no God?"
i would be surprised indeed since it is a blatant lie.
evolutionists, theists or atheists, do not need god in their theories. they do not need to compromise.

evolution stands on its own and doesn't disprove or prove God, no more than t ...[text shortened]... scientific fact. the only thing we can discuss is the exact particulars under which it happened.

"Would you be surprised to learn this idea was first broached by evolutionists who sincerely believe there is no God?"

i would be surprised indeed since it is a blatant lie.
evolutionists, theists or atheists, do not need god in their theories. they do not need to compromise.

Who said anything about evolutionists, theists or atheists needing to compromise? If you look again you can see that is not what I said.

Evolutionists know they aren't likely to change a Christians mind about God, but if they are able to convince them that God used evolution, then evolution is safe... and not only will it remain on the table, but they will have managed to bring "Bible believing" Christians on board as well. So when I said compromise it wasn't a real compromise. It's more like politicians who offer a compromise that only benefits them. This one sided "compromise" (God created life through evolution) is the lie you've been fed, and apparently fallen for. God didn't need evolution to cause life to appear on earth, and there's nothing in the Bible to indicate he did it that way. And whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, there's no real proof that life evolved (or could have evolved) from very simple to increasingly complex creatures.

Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]"Would you be surprised to learn this idea was first broached by evolutionists who sincerely believe there is no God?"

i would be surprised indeed since it is a blatant lie.
evolutionists, theists or atheists, do not need god in their theories. they do not need to compromise.

Who said anything about evolutionists, theists or atheists needing ...[text shortened]... of that life evolved (or could have evolved) from very simple to increasingly complex creatures.[/b]

You speak of evolutionists as though they're by definition not religious. That's a false dichotomy you're pushing there: evolutionists vs. religionists. What about the thousands of evolutionists that are also religionists?