19 Feb '09 18:47>
Someone may correct me here on the science but I have thought about a scenario that might shed some light on the current Free Will v Omniscience debate (ref-thread - God has to know)
Please feel free to correct me if I have got the science wrong.
Eintein's theory of relativity does say that it's possible for time travel into the future (yes?)
Take this scenario -
Jeff flies his interstellar ship at millions of miles per hour off to Vega and returns after 30 years travelling . Bob stays on earth not going anywhere. Due to the speed Jeff goes at on his journey relativity predicts (as I understand it) that although he would be in his ship for 30 years , when he arrived on earth he would find that more than 30 years had passed. Let's say that the difference was one hour for arguments sake.
In theory then he would be able to kind of see into the future because if he bumped into Bob walking his dog he would be witnessing something an hour ahead of time that he would not have been able to see if he had not gone on his trip.
In theory Jeff would be seeing Bob's future 1 hour before Bob had felt he had actually done it. His choice to walk the dog would be seen by Jeff but from earth's time perpsective Bob would not yet have walked the dog. The question is whether Bob has walked his dog yet or not or whether it's true to say he has both walked his dog ( jeff's relative view on time) and also not yet walked his dog (bob's perspective).
If this is sound theory ( and I suspect I will be told it isn't somehow) then doesn't relativity have implications for the Free Will debate? If we cannot say for definite that an event has happened or not happened (or it's both) then it's logically possible that God could know choice X as having happened but also that it's true to say that it hasn't happened. And if it hasn't happened then the choice is still open and could be a free will choice - but if it also has then it can be known infallibly by God.
Instinctively , I guess we all feel that it's counterintuitive to say this and that it's more logical to say that X has either happened or it hasn't.
But actually , the more I think about it - isn't this just a Newtonian view of time ? Does Einstein help God out here?
The objection to the "free will can include an omniscient God" idea is that if some choice has come to pass for God then it must be set in stone for us. But relativity might come to the rescue here. Could it be said that a choice is both fixed by us in a future timeline (God's view) but also not fixed as yet by us ( our view) ?
Afterall , what really counts with free will is whether at that precise moment (when we get there) we are able to choose X or Y. If at that moment we are the ones fixing our choice and we are doing it freely , why does it matter that from a different perspective God sees us fixing it? The choice could be both fixed but also not fixed.
Would Jeff conclude that Bob's choice to walk the dog was determined just because he witnesses it? How could he? For Bob in his relative position he has yet to fix his choice. We know he will walk his dog but that does not prove he never could have stayed at home if he had wanted to. Up until that point for Bob when he walks his dog his choice is not yet fixed , he still has to fix it in his future by making that choice. The fact that Jeff can see him fixing his own timeline via his free choice is not relevant to Bob because it's true to say that his choice has not yet been made.
Please feel free to correct me if I have got the science wrong.
Eintein's theory of relativity does say that it's possible for time travel into the future (yes?)
Take this scenario -
Jeff flies his interstellar ship at millions of miles per hour off to Vega and returns after 30 years travelling . Bob stays on earth not going anywhere. Due to the speed Jeff goes at on his journey relativity predicts (as I understand it) that although he would be in his ship for 30 years , when he arrived on earth he would find that more than 30 years had passed. Let's say that the difference was one hour for arguments sake.
In theory then he would be able to kind of see into the future because if he bumped into Bob walking his dog he would be witnessing something an hour ahead of time that he would not have been able to see if he had not gone on his trip.
In theory Jeff would be seeing Bob's future 1 hour before Bob had felt he had actually done it. His choice to walk the dog would be seen by Jeff but from earth's time perpsective Bob would not yet have walked the dog. The question is whether Bob has walked his dog yet or not or whether it's true to say he has both walked his dog ( jeff's relative view on time) and also not yet walked his dog (bob's perspective).
If this is sound theory ( and I suspect I will be told it isn't somehow) then doesn't relativity have implications for the Free Will debate? If we cannot say for definite that an event has happened or not happened (or it's both) then it's logically possible that God could know choice X as having happened but also that it's true to say that it hasn't happened. And if it hasn't happened then the choice is still open and could be a free will choice - but if it also has then it can be known infallibly by God.
Instinctively , I guess we all feel that it's counterintuitive to say this and that it's more logical to say that X has either happened or it hasn't.
But actually , the more I think about it - isn't this just a Newtonian view of time ? Does Einstein help God out here?
The objection to the "free will can include an omniscient God" idea is that if some choice has come to pass for God then it must be set in stone for us. But relativity might come to the rescue here. Could it be said that a choice is both fixed by us in a future timeline (God's view) but also not fixed as yet by us ( our view) ?
Afterall , what really counts with free will is whether at that precise moment (when we get there) we are able to choose X or Y. If at that moment we are the ones fixing our choice and we are doing it freely , why does it matter that from a different perspective God sees us fixing it? The choice could be both fixed but also not fixed.
Would Jeff conclude that Bob's choice to walk the dog was determined just because he witnesses it? How could he? For Bob in his relative position he has yet to fix his choice. We know he will walk his dog but that does not prove he never could have stayed at home if he had wanted to. Up until that point for Bob when he walks his dog his choice is not yet fixed , he still has to fix it in his future by making that choice. The fact that Jeff can see him fixing his own timeline via his free choice is not relevant to Bob because it's true to say that his choice has not yet been made.