1. Donationbuckky
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    02 May '09 13:33
    Throughout history there have been a few that claim they have become enlightened. For years I believed that such a state could be had through meditation, and I practiced in a very devoted manner for seven years, and I came away a sceptic on the whole subject. Now I doubt that such a state can be had. I know there are numerous degrees of consciousness, but true enlightenment seems to be an illusive dream. Have any of you seeking type individuals had such an experience ? I would love to hear about it.
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    02 May '09 18:01
    My view on enlightenment is that it is not possible to be had by me. However, that does not mean there is no value in trying to achieve the unachievable.

    When I was a youngster, as a classical bass player, my teacher would have me do an exercise in bowing where the stroke was long and slow, and by 'turning' at the tip and frog one could get a continuous sound. I could never for the life of me do that, I always heard the change of the bow stroke.

    I didn't play for 16 years and picked it up to play the Vivaldi Glorias, practiced for two weeks and played two performances with a chamber orchestra. During one of the Glorias, there is a vocal solo that is accompanied by some 16 or more measures of a long note on bass. More than one bow stroke, to be sure.

    A lady came up to me after that performance and told me how amazed she was - she said she was watching me but could not hear when I changed bow strokes!

    True story, this was in 1991.

    I think enlightenment is the same way. We never get there but it can seem like that to others. And even though we may not get there, and we hear the change of the bow strokes, we do become a better player.
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    02 May '09 18:03
    Originally posted by buckky
    Throughout history there have been a few that claim they have become enlightened. For years I believed that such a state could be had through meditation, and I practiced in a very devoted manner for seven years, and I came away a sceptic on the whole subject. Now I doubt that such a state can be had. I know there are numerous degrees of consciousness, but tru ...[text shortened]... Have any of you seeking type individuals had such an experience ? I would love to hear about it.
    which type of meditation did you practice Buckky?
  4. Pepperland
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    02 May '09 18:20
    Originally posted by buckky
    Throughout history there have been a few that claim they have become enlightened. For years I believed that such a state could be had through meditation, and I practiced in a very devoted manner for seven years, and I came away a sceptic on the whole subject. Now I doubt that such a state can be had. I know there are numerous degrees of consciousness, but tru ...[text shortened]... Have any of you seeking type individuals had such an experience ? I would love to hear about it.
    true enlightenment seems to be an illusive dream

    so I guess when you take LSD you become enlightened then.
  5. Standard memberblack beetle
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    02 May '09 18:25
    Originally posted by buckky
    Throughout history there have been a few that claim they have become enlightened. For years I believed that such a state could be had through meditation, and I practiced in a very devoted manner for seven years, and I came away a sceptic on the whole subject. Now I doubt that such a state can be had. I know there are numerous degrees of consciousness, but tru ...[text shortened]... Have any of you seeking type individuals had such an experience ? I would love to hear about it.
    Enlightenment always comes after the road of thinking is blocked­čśÁ
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    02 May '09 18:57
    Originally posted by generalissimo


    so I guess when you take LSD you become enlightened then.
    Funny you should mention this.

    LSD is not for everyone. You cannot hide from your own creations and the negatives of yourself while on LSD.

    While I only took it a handful of times and would never recommend that others take it, LSD was very helpful to me mentally. It allowed me an objective perspective that I never would have otherwise had.

    But LSD is bad, MmmKay.....
  7. Donationbuckky
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    02 May '09 19:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    which type of meditation did you practice Buckky?
    I don't meditate anymore, but when I did it was Transcendental Meditation.
  8. Donationbuckky
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    02 May '09 19:15
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]true enlightenment seems to be an illusive dream

    so I guess when you take LSD you become enlightened then.[/b]
    I heard an East Indian guru type of guy once say that taking LSD is like putting yourself into a cannon, and blasting your way through the celling to get a look ay the sky. You might get a glimpse but the damage done might not be woth it.
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    02 May '09 19:21
    Originally posted by buckky
    I don't meditate anymore, but when I did it was Transcendental Meditation.
    therefore you were supposed to clear your mind of all thought to enable you to 'transcend', yourself?
  10. Donationbuckky
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    02 May '09 21:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    therefore you were supposed to clear your mind of all thought to enable you to 'transcend', yourself?
    Not by force would you clear the mind. The use of a mantra would still the mind, and sometimes enable you to transcend. It really does work, but I found after a period of time I began to question the whole end game of the thing. Many things about that organization that bothered me. I had many fascinating experiences while doing TM that I still wonder what was really going on there. The mystery continues.
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    02 May '09 23:20
    Originally posted by buckky
    Not by force would you clear the mind. The use of a mantra would still the mind, and sometimes enable you to transcend. It really does work, but I found after a period of time I began to question the whole end game of the thing. Many things about that organization that bothered me. I had many fascinating experiences while doing TM that I still wonder what was really going on there. The mystery continues.
    when you say it works Buckky, what do you mean?
  12. Standard memberScriabin
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    02 May '09 23:571 edit
    There are many styles of meditation. Every major religious tradition has some sort of procedure which they call meditation, and the word is often very loosely used. I am familiar only with the Vipassana style of meditation as taught and practiced in South and Southeast Asian Buddhism. It is often translated as Insight meditation, since the purpose of this system is to give the meditator insight into the nature of reality and accurate understanding of how everything works.

    Buddhism as a whole is quite different from the theological religions with which Westerners are most familiar. It is a direct entrance to a spiritual realm without addressing deities or other 'agents'. Its flavor is intensely clinical, much more akin to psychology than to what we would usually call religion. It is an ever-ongoing investigation of reality, a microscopic examination of the very process of perception. Its intention is to pick apart the screen of lies and delusions through which we normally view the world, and thus to reveal the face of ultimate reality. Vipassana meditation is an ancient and elegant technique for doing just that.

    Scientifically speaking, Buddhist monks who have spent many years practicing this meditation technique have had their brain waves recorded and their brains scanned using MRI machines while they meditate. The scans reveal that those adept at this kind of meditation can control, voluntarily, that which is normally involuntary in the human brain. These adepts were able to determine what kind of brain waves their brains used at any given time while they were meditating.

    This fall, reportedly, technology in the form of toys will be introduced into the market place the use of which can train people to do something quite similar.

    Using a "Star Wars" theme, one company will sell a toy consisting of a headset that is a sensor sensitive enough to receive the electrical "frequency" of the users' brain waves, and then transmit that signal to a remote device that pushes air through a pump into a plastic tube containing a ping pong ball. The more one is able to focus one's mind to produce just the kind of brain wave signal required, the higher the ping pong ball will rise in the tube.

    They will call this a "Force Trainer." Their pop culture reference is Yoda raising a spacecraft from its submerged location and parking it on dry land.

    The young Luke Skywalker says to Yoda, "I can't do that..." and Yoda says, famously, "That is why you fail."

    Yoda might be Michael Jordan, for all that, for their philosophy is the same and it is correct.

    People can master their own minds. Soon, perhaps an entire generation of children will learn through a variety of "toys" just how to do that. The results may well be staggering and the implications significant.

    In my own case, my ability to meditate using the Insight technique has allowed me to do without narcotic pain medicine at times. I got through a 6-hour gall bladder attack using just meditation, no pain meds. I also controlled significant post-surgical pain as well. It is not a mystery or a power beyond that of any normal human. Your mind is like a muscle -- train it and it will get stronger. Let it lie on the couch and simply believe what you are told, and it turns to jelly and is weaker each day until it atrophies altogether.

    Use it, or lose it.
  13. Donationbuckky
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    03 May '09 00:06
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    when you say it works Buckky, what do you mean?
    The mantra's they give you have a strong effect for the better. A feeling of well being and calm comes about over a period of time. I have found out since that the mantra's were ment for those living a life of recluse in an ashram or community, and not ment for the general public. My mother started meditating after I did, and she quit because it freightened her at times. Sometimes you have the sensation that the floor just fell out from beneath you, and it can rattle your nerves if you don't know what it is. The mantra's are powerful, and they transform your consciousness. What exactlly they do I can't tell you. I can only say that from a purely subjective level something of a spiritual nature takes place. It opened my mind to many new way's of thinking, and perceiveing the world.
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    03 May '09 00:08
    Originally posted by Scriabin
    There are many styles of meditation. Every major religious tradition has some sort of procedure which they call meditation, and the word is often very loosely used. I am familiar only with the Vipassana style of meditation as taught and practiced in South and Southeast Asian Buddhism. It is often translated as Insight meditation, since the purpose of this s ...[text shortened]... ltimate reality. Vipassana meditation is an ancient and elegant technique for doing just that.
    how does it work, by that, i mean how does the practitioner practically go about it, is it also a process to 'free the mind', of all cumbersome thought, is its goal to empty the mind, or to focus on a sole objective?
  15. Standard memberScriabin
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    03 May '09 00:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    how does it work, by that, i mean how does the practitioner practically go about it, is it also a process to 'free the mind', of all cumbersome thought, is its goal to empty the mind, or to focus on a sole objective?
    see:

    http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe1-4.html

    a simple, straight-forward how-to on Insight meditation.

    very funny book, too.
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