31 Dec 09
Originally posted by 667joeDoes the questioner ask questions in such a way that an answer is not possible? Then said questions are not honest.
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Does the questioner know an answer is not possible? Then the questioner is not to be trusted.
Does the questioner hear the answer, but reject it? Then the questioner is to be pitied.
Does the questioner know the answer, but suppress it? Then the questioner is to be shunned.
31 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by 667joeIs god willing to prevent evil, Yes.
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
but not able? He is able.
Then he is not omnipotent. Irrational conclussion.
Is he able but not willing? He is able and willing.
Then he is malevolent. An insolent conclussion.
Is he both able and willing? Why wouldn't He be?
Then whence cometh evil? From those who do evil. 🙄
Is he neither able nor willing? Moot point.
Then why call him God? Because He is. 🙂
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31 Dec 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBHDoes the believer ascribe attributes to a being who is by definition formally beyond the bounds of possible human knowledge? Then said believer wants it both ways.
Does the questioner ask questions in such a way that an answer is not possible? Then said questions are not honest.
Does the questioner know an answer is not possible? Then the questioner is not to be trusted.
Does the questioner hear the answer, but reject it? Then the questioner is to be pitied.
Does the questioner know the answer, but suppress it? Then the questioner is to be shunned.
If theologians posit an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god (OOO), you can hardly blame Epicurus for asking sensible questions. Oh, wait it seems you did anyway...doh
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31 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwpremise 1: God is willing to prevent evil
Is god willing to prevent evil, [b]Yes.
but not able? He is able.
Then he is not omnipotent. Irrational conclussion.
Is he able but not willing? He is able and willing.
Then he is malevolent. An insolent conclussion.
Is he both able and willing? Why wouldn't He be?
Then whence cometh evil? [ ...[text shortened]... ither able nor willing? Moot point.
Then why call him God? Because He is. 🙂[/b]
premise 2: God is not able
therefore
3: God is not omnipotent (from 2)
So this is not an irrational conclusion given the premises of the question.
31 Dec 09
Originally posted by Lord SharkBy your achingly selective and narrow reasoning, anything beyond our ability to comprehend fully is 'wanting it both ways.'
Does the believer ascribe attributes to a being who is by definition formally beyond the bounds of possible human knowledge? Then said believer wants it both ways.
If theologians posit an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god (OOO), you can hardly blame Epicurus for asking sensible questions. Oh, wait it seems you did anyway...doh
Or, in other words, nonsense. Anything we ascribe as being beyond our descriptive abilities, e.g., pi, infinity, how the universe began, or etc., becomes a black hole of circular reasoning lacking both beginning or end and eventually dissolves into absurdity.
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31 Dec 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWell you have a point there. When our speculations so far outstrip our capabilities to test our assertions, we do dissolve into absurdity. So that is the difference between reasoning about, say pi, on the one hand and postulating something incoherent like the OOO god on the other. The former is not absurd, the latter is.
By your achingly selective and narrow reasoning, anything beyond our ability to comprehend fully is 'wanting it both ways.'
Or, in other words, nonsense. Anything we ascribe as being beyond our descriptive abilities, e.g., pi, infinity, how the universe began, or etc., becomes a black hole of circular reasoning lacking both beginning or end and eventually dissolves into absurdity.
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31 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joeAs you can clearly see from the answers you have received so far: you'll not find an honest discussion around here. Just apes of passed-down opinions and hostility towards any who question them. If you were in throwing distance of their cage I'd suggest that you duck! Most of them don't even have the intellectual equipment to engage in any other kind of battle.
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
As for your post - the answer is obvious (therefore it will not elicit reasoned responses.)
31 Dec 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackhave a dram on me Jack! we love yah never the less!
As you can clearly see from the answers you have received so far: you'll not find an honest discussion around here. Just apes of passed-down opinions and hostility towards any who question them. If you were in throwing distance of their cage I'd suggest that you duck! Most of them don't even have the intellectual equipment to engage in any other kind of ...[text shortened]...
As for your post - the answer is obvious (therefore it will not elicit reasoned responses.)
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31 Dec 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI plan to be a total apostate tonite and imbibe a generous portion of 10 year-old Bushmill's Irish Whiskey to ring in the new year! (Since I am both Scot and Irish and Native American I claim all rights related to any form of the true water-of-life!)
have a dram on me Jack! we love yah never the less!
31 Dec 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackit is a perfect mixture, Scots, Irish, Native American a wee dram and some ice cubes! i wish you all the best Jack 🙂
I plan to be a total apostate tonite and imbibe a generous portion of 10 year-old Bushmill's Irish Whiskey to ring in the new year! (Since I am both Scot and Irish and Native American I claim all rights related to any form of the true water-of-life!)
31 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joeMust God be omnipotent? What's the problem if God isn't?
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?