1. Joined
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    20 Mar '08 19:50
    Have you received God's gift of salvation & eternal life? Below is a poem that tells how a person receives God's gift of eternal life & in the future a new glorified resurrected body.

    EASTER'S ETERNAL LIFE MESSAGE

    Spring returns--replacing winter’s gloom.
    Colorful spring flowers now in bloom.
    Green grass replaces snow.
    Migrating birds flying North--what a show.

    Spring brings Easter--a joyful day--
    Celebrating Christ Jesus’ rise from the grave.
    On the cross He was crucified,
    Atoning for our sins, as was testified.

    God we thank for the hope Easter’s message gives us.
    *Eternal life and redemption is received by complete faith in Christ Jesus.
    Resurrected bodies we will receive of glorified perfection.
    This is Biblical truth--we thank God for His gift of Salvation.

    (c) Jim Colton

    *John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; l John 5:11-12; Romns 10:9,10,13.
  2. Joined
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    20 Mar '08 20:452 edits
    Originally posted by johnchp3
    Have you received God's gift of salvation & eternal life? Below is a poem that tells how a person receives God's gift of eternal life & in the future a new glorified resurrected body.

    EASTER'S ETERNAL LIFE MESSAGE

    Spring returns--replacing winter’s gloom.
    Colorful spring flowers now in bloom.
    Green grass replaces snow.
    Migrating birds flying N ...[text shortened]... lvation.

    (c) Jim Colton

    *John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; l John 5:11-12; Romns 10:9,10,13.
    I'd say you're pretty cleanly divorced from reality. Stevie pretty well summed up the self-prescribed medicine of the superstitious: "Keep me in a daydream, keep me going strong...."

    I have some questions for you:

    1. Can you give me some good reasons to think there is something, anything about you (the person you are) that is permanent?

    2. Why is it that in our better moments of reflection we come to see the most profound beauty in selflessness; whereas your prescription has at its very core notions that are purely egoistic and selfish, more or less by their very nature (like permanence of the self and eternal life)?

    3. What would you say to the person who holds that your prescription for suffering is completely counteractive: that in calling for the embracement of permanence you are actually simply reinforcing a chief source of suffering (as well as ignorance)?
  3. Joined
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    20 Mar '08 20:47
    Originally posted by johnchp3
    Have you received God's gift of salvation & eternal life? Below is a poem that tells how a person receives God's gift of eternal life & in the future a new glorified resurrected body.

    EASTER'S ETERNAL LIFE MESSAGE

    Spring returns--replacing winter’s gloom.
    Colorful spring flowers now in bloom.
    Green grass replaces snow.
    Migrating birds flying N ...[text shortened]... lvation.

    (c) Jim Colton

    *John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; l John 5:11-12; Romns 10:9,10,13.
    I do not care for it too much.

    The resurrection of Christ is completely different from the fertility rituals of spring celebrated throughout history.

    We have enough problems trying to separate Easter Rabbits of fertility religions from the Gospel of Christ.

    The word Easter should not have appeared in the King James Version Bible in the book of Acts. It is a poor translation and reflects reading cultural tradition of Catholicism into the Greek text.

    The Roman Catholic Church mixed up the pure gospel of Christ with the mystery religions of the nations to make the gospel more popular and palatable to the masses. It resulted in a terrible mixture.

    This is exactly why so many skeptics believe that the Gospel of Christ was just a re-hash of Babylonian religions with its Easter Eggs, Christmas Trees, Mother and Child portraits, yul logs, priestly garbs, signs of the cross, robes, hats, staffs, Mary worship, and tons of other religious objects which have thier source in pre-Christian cult religions.

    This was all told to us many years ago in Alexander Hislop's book The Two Babylons.


    Of course the fact of eternal life is in the New Testament teaching. It is actually Christ Himself as the divine life given to the believers. He became the life givng Spirit to impart Himself to the saved as eternal life:

    "The last adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

    To give eternal life is for Christ to give us Himself. He is the life. He is the way the truth and the life. He is the resurrection and the life. And in resurrection He became the life giving Spirit to convey the divine life into man; impart Himself as eternal life into man.
  4. Joined
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    21 Mar '08 00:11
    Wow! Spring brings easter???? Not where I live it doesn't. So that blows me out the door as a candidate for the gift, because seemingly one has to reside in the northern hemisphere to qualify. Oh well.
  5. Joined
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    21 Mar '08 06:51
    Originally posted by muppyman
    Wow! Spring brings easter???? Not where I live it doesn't. So that blows me out the door as a candidate for the gift, because seemingly one has to reside in the northern hemisphere to qualify. Oh well.
    Don't give up. Just trying to read the New Testament itself. A reading of a few chapters of the Gospel of John will help.


    No need to give up like someone for whom it could be said "Some people are turned off because they want to be turned off."
  6. Joined
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    21 Mar '08 09:12
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Don't give up. Just trying to read the New Testament itself. A reading of a few chapters of the Gospel of John will help.


    No need to give up like someone for whom it could be said "Some people are turned off because they want to be turned off."
    I have to wonder how anyone can be turned off when they have not been turned on in the first place.
  7. Joined
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    21 Mar '08 11:21
    Originally posted by muppyman
    I have to wonder how anyone can be turned off when they have not been turned on in the first place.
    We were born turned off.

    Being turned off is the way we arrive in the world ever since Adam had descendents.


    What was the first word you learned to say? Probably "No!"

    Did you have to study in school to learn how to lie? Probably not. It came "naturally".

    Did you have to read a book to learn how to be selfish ? Did you have to go a library and take out a book on jealousy ?


    Why did these things come so naturally to us?

    Did anyone come into the world automatically living the commandment to love God with their whole heart and wholy being and whole strength?

    No. We all love something other than God. We all love to replace God with something else.

    So you see we arrived turned off to God from the fall of Adam.
  8. Joined
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    21 Mar '08 21:04
    Originally posted by jaywill
    We were born turned off.

    Being turned off is the way we arrive in the world ever since Adam had descendents.


    What was the first word you learned to say? Probably [b]"No!"


    Did you have to study in school to learn how to lie? Probably not. It came "naturally".

    Did you have to read a book to learn how to be selfish ? Did you have to go ...[text shortened]... God with something else.

    So you see we arrived turned off to God from the fall of Adam.[/b]
    So you see we arrived turned off to God from the fall of Adam.[/b]

    I see no such thing! Your post is full of assumptions which you expect me to agree with simply because you have written them.

    Did anyone come into the world automatically living the commandment to love God with their whole heart and wholy being and whole strength?

    You dont suppose the "only begotten son" (referred to on your profile page) might have qualified for that lofty pinnacle?

    You boldly claim that my first word was probably NO. I can claim with equal boldness that I was born with only two instictive fears, the fear of falling, and the fear of sudden noise. Every other caustic emotion I have ever experienced was taught to me by society. Why did these things come so naturally and easily? Because I had excellent teachers, who's actions and emotions I accepted and therefore copied, as we all do when we are very young and are taught by older folk. I am one of the lucky ones who have learned how to do away with such things as anger, jealousy, boredom, hatred etc. Fortunately I did not need your scriptures to be implanted in my psyche by fundamentalist fanatics to achieve that ability. It came about by one simple practice called reasoning.
    Even the great christian God is recorded as saying "Come, let us reason together" That strikes me as being more acceptable than talking down to people as if they were still ignorant babies.
  9. Joined
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    25 Mar '08 13:353 edits
    Originally posted by muppyman
    So you see we arrived turned off to God from the fall of Adam.

    I see no such thing! Your post is full of assumptions which you expect me to agree with simply because you have written them.

    Did anyone come into the world automatically living the commandment to love God with their whole heart and wholy being and whole strength?

    You dont suppose as being more acceptable than talking down to people as if they were still ignorant babies.[/b]
    My reply may have been off the cuff. Sorry it annoyed you so.

    I guess I am more in a chess playing mood today than a theological debate mood. And I have long known of the passage "Come let us reason together".

    What does the rest of it say? The rest of it is fascinating also you know?

    See me latter when I turn into Mr. Hyde fanatic fundamentalist.

    (You look like one heck of a chess player. You remind me of my brother. Just a little older.)
  10. Cape Town
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    25 Mar '08 13:48
    Originally posted by jaywill
    To give eternal life is for Christ to give us Himself. He is the life. He is the way the truth and the life. He is the resurrection and the life. And in resurrection He became the life giving Spirit to convey the divine life into man; impart Himself as eternal life into man.
    Just as a matter of interest. What do you mean when you use the word "life"? I realize that you are not talking about the biological concept.
    I am not criticizing, just trying to understand the meaning of your post.
  11. Joined
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    25 Mar '08 15:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Just as a matter of interest. What do you mean when you use the word "life"? I realize that you are not talking about the biological concept.
    I am not criticizing, just trying to understand the meaning of your post.
    In the Greek New Testament there are three words which are translated our English life:

    Bios - which means the physical life.

    Psuche - which means the soul or soul-life.

    Zoe - which means the eternal and divine life. This is God Himself as the uncreated Person.

    Here are some passages that illustrates the difference between psuche and zoe:

    "I have come that they may have life [zoe] and have it abundantly" (John 10:10).

    Jesus comes that we may have abundantly God Himself as our life.

    " ... and I lay down My life [psuche] for the sheep." (John 10:14)

    Jesus lays down His soul life, the life of His soul for His sheep.

    "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life [psuche] that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself ..." (John 10:17,18)

    Again Jesus came to lay down His soul-life, His life as a human soul and to take it again in resurrection.

    "In Him was life [zoe] and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4)

    In Christ is the divine life of God. This life is the light of men.

    "I am the resurrection and the life ..." (John 11:25)

    Christ is the resurrection and the eternal divine life of God.

    "Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life [zoe]; no one comes to teh Father except through me. (John 14:6)

    Again Jesus says that He is the divine life.

    "For whoever wants to save his life [soul-life - psuche] shall lose it: but whoever loses his soul-life [psuche for My sake shall find it.

    For what shall a man give in exchange for his soul-life [psuche]?" Matt. 16:25,26)


    If we seek to save our own soul we will lose it. If for the sake of Christ we lose our soul, we will find it.

    The Recovery Version of the Bible www.recoveryversion.org is helpful in that it usually translated psuche as "soul-life" so that we can appreciate the difference in Greek word usage.

    There are many many more passages to illustrate this. This is the important point:

    Behind all life and lives that are created there is a Uncreated Life of a Person Who always was. He is the Divine uncreated One Whom the Bible calls the Father. Christ the Son is the human bios and soul within Whom dwelt this uncreated and Divine Being in a perfectly united, mingled, and blended way.

    He laid down that human soul life which can be put to death. In His divine life He resurrected again the bios and soul to be the Author and Originator of salvation imparting this life into His believers:

    "the last Adam became a life [zoe] giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

    In His resurrection Christ became the new head of a new race of people. Unlike the first Adam the last Adam, "the second Man", became a God imparting Spirit. The life giving Spirit is the Holy Spirit which dispenses God Himself into people.

    Christ became a God imparting, God giving, God conveying, and divine life imparting Spirit.
  12. kent
    Joined
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    25 Mar '08 23:09
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    I'd say you're pretty cleanly divorced from reality. Stevie pretty well summed up the self-prescribed medicine of the superstitious: "Keep me in a daydream, keep me going strong...."

    I have some questions for you:

    1. Can you give me some good reasons to think there is something, anything about you (the person you are) that is permanent?
    ...[text shortened]... ence you are actually simply reinforcing a chief source of suffering (as well as ignorance)?
    And a question to you which is why should your opinion be of any more value than a believer? I can never understand why non believers seek to challenge the beliefs of those who do, why exactly are you interested??
  13. Cape Town
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    26 Mar '08 07:58
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Again Jesus came to lay down His soul-life, His life as a human soul and to take it again in resurrection.
    Thank you. I think I understand it a bit better now. It gets confusing when people use the same word to mean so many different things - I guess it is a short coming of the English language?

    And what does 'lay down' mean?
  14. Joined
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    26 Mar '08 11:12
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Thank you. I think I understand it a bit better now. It gets confusing when people use the same word to mean so many different things - I guess it is a short coming of the English language?

    And what does 'lay down' mean?
    ================================
    And what does 'lay down' mean?
    ===================================


    In the case of Jesus saying that He lays down His life it means firstly that He denied Himself for the sake of doing the will of His Father. Secondly it means that He physically died for our salvation.


    Consider this passage:

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

    Jesus says here He is like the grain of wheat. Concealed in the grain is life. When it is planted in the ground the shell breaks and the life germ within the grain reproduces - much fruit is the result.

    Jesus was the Man with the eternal life of God hidden and concealed within His humanity. When He died on the cross the shell of His humanity was broken. The divine life within Him was released that that life could get into His followers.

    He laid down His psuche, His soul - life, allowed His humanity to be broken open. And that uncreated and eternal life of God concealed within the shell of His humanity was released to produce more sons of God.

    " ... Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

    He would not abide alone. He would lay down His life as the man Jesus of Nazareth so tha the divine element embodied within Him would be released through the broken shell of His human life, to be imparted into us.

    God wants to produce many sons of God. Christ is the original seed. Christ is the standard model. His death and resurrection is the beginning of the mass production of the sons of God, the many grains from the original grain as "much fruit".


    This is the germinative aspect of Christ's death.

    There is also the redemptive aspect of His death. That involves the cleansing of our sins through His blood. But my explanation of John 12:24 highlights not the redemptive aspect but the germination of life.

    He denied Himself. He laid down his life in death to relase the divine element of God's lfie from within Him to get into His believers.
  15. Cape Town
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    26 Mar '08 11:241 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]================================
    And what does 'lay down' mean?
    ===================================


    In the case of Jesus saying that He lays down His life it means firstly that He denied Himself for the sake of doing the will of His Father. Secondly it means that He physically died for our salvation.


    Consider this passage:

    "T to relase the divine element of God's lfie from within Him to get into His believers.[/b]
    Thank you for trying, but it looks like I don't have a hope of understanding it without taking a university course in theology.
    I cant figure out from your post whether his Bios, Psuche or Zoe got 'laid down' and whether he lost them temporarily or permanently and whether such an act was a loss or gain to him etc. The confusing fact that he seems to have different aims to his father (who is also himself) and the use of a false analogy don't help either. (seeds do not die when planted).
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