"Eternity"

The Apostle Paul writes the following about Apollos and himself:

To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless; and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now.

(1 Corithians 4:11-13)

Could it be that the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church, even though he has repented and received back his sight? He must endure a mysterious thorn in his flesh, I believe he called it.

Originally posted by sonship

sonship, it's my hope that you will enjoy these two expositions from the Teaching Ministry of Pastor James Rickard.

Well, it was my hope that you would answer the question in some way - [b]"Over who do you think the sons of God will reign over forever and ever?"

Revelation 21:24 speaks of the nations which walk in the lig ...[text shortened]... nto this state and benefit from the New Jerusalem of the sons of God in their midst in eternity.[/b]

"At the end of this age a great part of the inhabitants of the earth will be killed as a result of the sixth and seventh trumpets. The rest will be judged by Christ at the throne of His glory when He comes back to earth. The condemned ones, the "goats," will be cursed and will perish in the lake of fire, while the justified ones, the "sheep," will be blessed and will inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:31-46). Unlike the New Jerusalem believers, the "sheep" will not be saved and regenerated; they will only be restored to the original state of man as he was created by God. They will be the nations as citizens of the millennial kingdom, in which the overcoming believers will be the kings (20:4,6) and the saved remnant of Israel will be the priests (Zech. 8:20-23). After the millennial kingdom, a part of these nations, deceived by the devil, will rebel against the Lord and will be consumed by fire from heaven (20:7-9). The rest will be transferred to the new earth to be the nations, which will live around the New Jerusalem and walk by its light. They will be the peoples mentioned in vv. 3 and 4. [Footnote 24: (1) for Rev.24:1, Recovery Version]"

Would you have a direct link to the site containing this multiple passage Recovery Version footnote text? Thanks.

Deleted

Originally posted by CalJust
Deleted

"CJ, out." CJ, threads typically embrace more that one conversation such as yours on the topic of "Free Gift?" with sonship.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"CJ, out." CJ, threads typically embrace more that one conversation such as yours on the topic of "Free Gift?" with sonship.

I saw that only afterwards. That is why I deleted my comment as inappropriate. My apologies.

Originally posted by RJHinds

(1 Corithians 4:11-13)

Could it be that the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church, even though he has repented and received back his sight? He must endure a mysterious thorn in his flesh, I believe he called it.

Second Corinthians more clearly shows that all of the apostles' sufferings are furthering God's manifestation of Jesus Christ from within them. All of the circumstances which they suffered with the persecutions were being used by God to manifest the priceless treasure of Jesus Christ which was living in the earthen vessels of their beings.


"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power of may be of God and not of us.

We are pressed on every side but not constricted, unable to find a way out; Persecuted but not abandoned; cast down but not destroyed;

Always bearing about in the body the putting to death of Jesus that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

For we who are alive are always being delivered unto death for Jesus' sake that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body." ( 2 Cor. 4:7-11)

I do not regard Paul as being punished for sins committed as an unbeliever. I regard that his deep consecration to Christ gave God the ground to bring him through the furnace of sufferings of all kinds. These drove him out of the old self and into the living Christ within him for Christ's manifestation.

Originally posted by sonship

(1 Corithians 4:11-13)

Could it be that the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church, even though he has repented and received back his sight? He must endure a mysterious thorn in his flesh, I believe he called it.

Second Corinthians more clearly shows that all of the apostles' sufferings are furthering God' ...[text shortened]... drove him out of the old self and into the living Christ within him for Christ's manifestation.

I disagree. I believe the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church. As I indicated in my previous post he wrote the following:

"For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!"

And on top of having to preach the gospel, he has to do it while being persecuted, like he persecuted the Church.

Originally posted by CalJust
I saw that only afterwards. That is why I deleted my comment as inappropriate. My apologies.

Apologies totally unnecessary, CJ. Please enjoy your conversation with sonship; it's apropos of "Eternity".

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"At the end of this age a great part of the inhabitants of the earth will be killed as a result of the sixth and seventh trumpets. The rest will be judged by Christ at the throne of His glory when He comes back to earth. The condemned ones, the "goats," will be cursed and will perish in the lake of fire, while the justified ones, the "sheep," will be bl ...[text shortened]... direct link to the site containing this multiple passage Recovery Version footnote text? Thanks.

"Bibles: Holy Bible Recovery Version Holy Bible Recovery Versions A devotion to and love for the Bible has made possible a broad range of good translations which have rendered immense help to serious students who have not been able to translate the Scriptures on their own. Both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee desired to study the bible thoroughly so that the Lord would open the Word richly among us. While Watchman Nee at times translated short portions of the Scriptures for his messages, it was Witness Lee who realized the great benefit in translating the Bible.

In 1974, as he embarked upon the life-study of the Bible, he initiated the work of translating the New Testament into English, directing a small team of brothers and sisters to translate from the original language as the life-study progressed through the entire New Testament. The issue of this effort was the Recovery Version of the New Testament, which was published in its current revised form in 1991.

In 1989, as Witness Lee proceeded to release his life-study of the Old Testament, he again directed a new translation endeavor in English, this time of the Old Testament, and again from the original languages. As the work proceeded book by book, Witness Lee reviewed the translation and made numerous improvements and suggestions, both prior to publication and during his use of each book during his life-study trainings. The Recovery Version translation of the Holy Bible, containing both Old Testament and New Testament was published in February 1999. The Recovery Version of the Bible, including outlines, footnotes, and cross-references for both the Old and New Testaments is now available."
http://www.livingstreambooks.com/servlet/the-Bibles-cln-Holy-Bible-Recovery-Version/Categories

sonship, is this the translation with footnotes you quoted in reply to the two expositions by Pastor/Teacher James Rickard?

Originally posted by CalJust
Wow, are you skittish! I'm not sure what you are thinking or expecting, but this is just s friendly discourse.

Of course BOTH are true, that's what I said in my post. We have examples in the Bible of both these types of interaction between God and man.

Would you agree with me that when Type A occurs, there is almost never any recorded refusal of the o ...[text shortened]... e themselves responsible for their decision?

Reality check: Are you still with me? OK so far?

The End. Pity nobody has the balls to continue this discussion.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Bibles: Holy Bible Recovery Version Holy Bible Recovery Versions A devotion to and love for the Bible has made possible a broad range of good translations which have rendered immense help to serious students who have not been able to translate the Scriptures on their own. Both Watchman Nee and Witness Lee desired to study the bible thoroughly so that t ...[text shortened]... ation with footnotes you quoted in reply to the two expositions by Pastor/Teacher James Rickard?

I did use the Recovery Version footnotes in the course of this discussion.

And in another discussion I wrote:

I dropped the discussion on the Revelation passages on the surrounding nations. I decided not to argue about it further or refer to links explanaing it.

It is not a crucial tenet of the common faith. So I just stopped writing about it on the Forum.

You can read excellent study notes and footnotes on Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 21 and 22 in the Recovery Version Bible.

www.recoveryversion.org

To view the Footnotes you go to the Online Recovery Version at

www.recoveryversion.org

And navigtate through the outline of a chosen book putting the Footnotes button on.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I disagree. I believe the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church. As I indicated in my previous post he wrote the following:

"For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. [b]Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!"

And on top of having to preach the gospel, he has to do it while being persecuted, like he persecuted the Church.[/b]

I disagree. I believe the apostle Paul is being punished for his persecution of the Church. As I indicated in my previous post he wrote the following:

"For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!"

And on top of having to preach the gospel, he has to do it while being persecuted, like he persecuted the Church.

It seems that you are reading into this phrase ". Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!" that Paul believed that he had to preach because of punishment for his previous persecutions.

I just don't see that as his motivation. It is his responsibility because of the truth from God that he has received. I think he feels this responsibility regardless of his past persecutions.

But, on further consideration, I can at least see your point there.