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    13 May '09 08:49
    Everyone's talking about the apple Eve gave to Adam to eat, thus the great sin, or whatever.

    Apple? Doesn't say anything about an apple? Is the apple invented by someone?
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    13 May '09 09:024 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Everyone's talking about the apple Eve gave to Adam to eat, thus the great sin, or whatever.

    Apple? Doesn't say anything about an apple? Is the apple invented by someone?
    yes its an invention, for as to the genus of the tree, the inspired word of God is silent. what is it they are saying the 'apple', symbolizes?

    for you should be aware that traditional teachings have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the mere cognizance of right and wrong; and as the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity and also through experience, which knowledge can be put to a good or a bad use. Yet, in view of the Creators command to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth” (Ge 1:28), sexual intercourse must be rejected as being what the trees fruit represented, for in what other way could procreation and multiplication have been effected? The mere ability to recognize right and wrong most certainly cannot be meant, for obedience to Gods command required of sinless man that he be able to exercise such moral discrimination. Nor could the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity be meant, for it would not be sin on mans part to reach this state, nor would his Creator logically obligate him to remain in an immature state.

    It becomes apparent that the tree of the knowledge of good and bad symbolized the divine right or prerogative, which mans Creator retains, to designate to his creatures what is “good” and what is “bad,” thereafter properly requiring the practice of that which is declared good and the abstention from that which is pronounced bad in order to remain approved by God as Sovereign Ruler. Both the prohibition and the subsequent pronouncement of the sentence passed upon the disobedient pair emphasize the fact that it was the act of disobedience in eating the prohibited fruit that constituted the original sin, the actual fruit meant nothing — Ge 3:3.
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    13 May '09 09:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes its an invention, for as to the genus of the tree, the inspired word of God is silent. what is it they are saying the 'apple', symbolizes?

    for you should be aware that traditional teachings have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the me ...[text shortened]... ohibited fruit that constituted the original sin, the actual fruit meant nothing — Ge 3:3.
    [/b]
    Good answer.

    Apple symbolize knowledge, therfore we accept that Eve gave Adam of the knwoledge that was forbidden fruit.
    Or was it the other way around, that the apple came to symbolize knowledge because of the act of Eve? The chicken or the egg?

    Did the apple symbolize sexuality? I didn't know that...

    Why not a figue, a plum, an olive, a dadel? It just says fruit, nothing more. If so this fruit would symbolize the knowledge and the legenary Newtonian apple would be a figue, olive or a dadel instead...

    So the legend doesn't say apple, but yet someone invented an apple, and here we are talking about apples in numerous paintings, stories, proverbs, and everything.
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    13 May '09 10:11
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Good answer.

    Apple symbolize knowledge, therfore we accept that Eve gave Adam of the knwoledge that was forbidden fruit.
    Or was it the other way around, that the apple came to symbolize knowledge because of the act of Eve? The chicken or the egg?

    Did the apple symbolize sexuality? I didn't know that...

    Why not a figue, a plum, an olive, a dadel? ...[text shortened]... and here we are talking about apples in numerous paintings, stories, proverbs, and everything.
    these are also very good questions! 🙂
  5. Donationrwingett
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    13 May '09 10:20
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Good answer.

    Apple symbolize knowledge, therfore we accept that Eve gave Adam of the knwoledge that was forbidden fruit.
    Or was it the other way around, that the apple came to symbolize knowledge because of the act of Eve? The chicken or the egg?

    Did the apple symbolize sexuality? I didn't know that...

    Why not a figue, a plum, an olive, a dadel? ...[text shortened]... and here we are talking about apples in numerous paintings, stories, proverbs, and everything.
    The book of Jobs has plenty to say about Apple.
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    13 May '09 11:55
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The book of Jobs has plenty to say about Apple.
    Job has its prophecies. He foretold about Apple, but not Mac. (sorry)

    Did he say anything about the fruit of Eve?
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    13 May '09 12:211 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The book of Jobs has plenty to say about Apple.
    I thought Steve, although in semi-retirement nowadays, hadn't finished his auto-biography yet.
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    13 May '09 12:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Nor could the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity be meant, for it would not be sin on mans part to reach this state, nor would his Creator logically obligate him to remain in an immature state.
    What did Adam gain after eating the fruit? Did his decedents(us) gain it too? Is it still sinful to have whatever it was?
    Why do you dismiss maturity as being the sinful property gained?
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    13 May '09 13:042 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What did Adam gain after eating the fruit? Did his decedents(us) gain it too? Is it still sinful to have whatever it was?
    Why do you dismiss maturity as being the sinful property gained?
    Adam gained nothing! and lost almost everything, thus he believed the Satanic lie, that he would be better off independent from God, that God was withholding something good from him. Yes it may be argued that now he was a morally 'free', agent, but now the great universal issue was raised, that being, Gods prerogative as the creator to determine standards of 'good', and 'bad'.

    Probably the most devastating thing that he lost was his relationship with God, thus god made recompense for this, by assigning certain humans the the task of reconciling mankind back to him, thus you have the emergence of prophets, all from the lineage of Hebrews and various walks of life which led ultimately to the Christ himself.

    i do not know where this belief of knowledge reaching maturity originates from, i have merely shown how this is not scriptural for the reasons given.

    I have a famous book by Alexander Hislop, the two Babylons, which is quite interesting at shedding light on pagan elements within Christendom, which naturally he condemns. his interpretation of scripture is not wholly accurate, but it makes for interesting reading. i will try to find it, for there are so many books here all piled on top of oneanother, even on the book shelfs, and post what he states about the apple.
  10. Standard memberblack beetle
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    13 May '09 13:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes its an invention, for as to the genus of the tree, the inspired word of God is silent. what is it they are saying the 'apple', symbolizes?

    for you should be aware that traditional teachings have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the me ...[text shortened]... ohibited fruit that constituted the original sin, the actual fruit meant nothing — Ge 3:3.
    [/b]
    Rabbie my trusty feer this dualistic approach is a bit loose: why am I a sinner? Am I a "sinner" just coz Adam and Eve eat a fruit?! Over here dualism -a primal concept of the Christian religion- stands against Intelligence and creates contradictions, as shown by Fabian and twhitehead amongst else.

    So I would rather accept that the parable is related to the separation of the Human from her/ his so called "divine source", thus it has nothing to do with dualism and terms like "good/ evil", "do this/ avoid that" etc.
    Yes, many Christians are quite sure that the Human is supposed to be full of “sin” from the very first second of her/ his birth, but since they cannot explain rationally the reason why they tend to offer their interlocutors theological nonsense. However, when we realize that during this life (during this status of existence) the Human has Flesh, thus she/ he is separated from the Non-created (god) because this was the sole way for her/ him to be born (and "eat the fruit of Life" as we perceive it), we can grasp the parable without contradictions I reckon😵
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    13 May '09 13:251 edit
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Rabbie my trusty feer this dualistic approach is a bit loose: why am I a sinner? Am I a "sinner" just coz Adam and Eve eat a fruit?! Over here dualism -a primal concept of the Christian religion- stands against Intelligence and creates contradictions, as shown by Fabian and twhitehead amongst else.

    So I would rather accept that the parable is related f Life" as we perceive it), we can grasp the parable without contradictions I reckon😵
    see the above beetle, for you are entirely correct, the separation was the most devastating thing, but sin is as I understand it, merely a missing of the mark, the inability, due to inherited imperfection from Adam of keeping perfect standards, set by God. for we hold that Adam was created perfectly, but paradise and perfection was lost, the creation subject to futility because of it, and we have inherited imperfection, thus we sadly grow old in this present system and ultimately pass away. (i even asked in the science forum why aging takes place, but no one was quite sure.) where this idea that we are full of sin, originates from, i do not know, all the scriptures states is that we have a tendency towards sin, for it is sweet, but at the same time, may yield bitter fruits, like drinking too much Skoosh, you enjoy it at the time but in the morning you see wee fairies and elves dancing round your head.
  12. Donationkirksey957
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    13 May '09 13:28
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What did Adam gain after eating the fruit? Did his decedents(us) gain it too? Is it still sinful to have whatever it was?
    Why do you dismiss maturity as being the sinful property gained?
    He gained the art of blame. His discendants as well.
  13. Account suspended
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    13 May '09 13:37
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    He gained the art of blame. His discendants as well.
    Lol, it was the women that you gave me, she did it! 😵
  14. Standard memberblack beetle
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    13 May '09 13:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    see the above beetle, for you are entirely correct, the separation was the most devastating thing, but sin is as I understand it, merely a missing of the mark, the inability, due to inherited imperfection from Adam of keeping perfect standards, set by God. for we hold that Adam was created perfectly, but paradise and perfection was lost, the creatio ...[text shortened]... u enjoy it at the time but in the morning you see wee fairies and elves dancing round your head.
    Ah but this is merely theology🙂

    It seems to me that "palace" / "Paradise" was a status of Existence "with god". Them there entities at that status they were "with god" too, and also they had the chance to taste everything but Life as we perceive it by means of collapsing the wavefunction through their own birth! The "sin" is just Life itself as we understand and feel it here and now, and this is the reason why the core Eastern and Western metaphysical concept remains to offer the Human a Way to achieve again his “mind-only” nature.

    Master Jesus was not pleased to just teach the Human this old metaphysical doctrine, but he went further: he urged his disciples to "repent" and to follow him all the way up to "god" -he was promising them a status of existence “with god” through his own power. This is the reason why Jesus was declaring time and time again that "he was the Way" I reckon😵
  15. Cape Town
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    13 May '09 13:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Adam gained nothing!
    So why did God tell him not to eat the apple (fruit /whatever) ?
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