14 May 09
Originally posted by Agergmy dear sir, every year there are hundreds of thousands of people killed in road accidents, are we therefore to believe that the highway was put there in order to kill those people? no, well then, what are you talking about?
This response (the highway part), in my opinion, fails to capture a key point
The highway was created to be used by those who shouldn't play on it.
From what I can see, your god made this tree only to set Adam & Eve up for a fall.
14 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOnly if the highways were placed to test people and see if they'd heed the advice of their elders by not playing on them, would this analogy of yours bear any relation to your supposed god's magic tree.
my dear sir, every year there are hundreds of thousands of people killed in road accidents, are we therefore to believe that the highway was put there in order to kill those people? no, well then, what are you talking about?
If god wasn't sure whether Adam & Eve could be tempted then why if he wanted to test this idea was there such a harsh punishment?
If he was sure they would be tempted at some point then your god is a monster.
14 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Agergummmm i do not know if it has ever crossed your mind, that many 'accidents', are nothing of the sort, but the direct result of ignoring prohibitions, thus the analogy is sound!
Only if the highways were placed to test people and see if they'd heed the advice of their elders by not playing on them, would this analogy of yours bear any relation to your supposed god's magic tree.
If god wasn't sure whether Adam & Eve could be tempted then why if he wanted to test this idea was there such a harsh punishment?
If he was sure they would be tempted at some point then your god is a monster.
Adam and Eve had free will, did they not? as to this idea of God being a monster, that is your perception, i on the other hand, know that despite their rebellion, he has made every reparation to bring back a restoration, sending prophets, whom were not heeded and eventually his own 'son', who was also not heeded, but you for your part have made yourself equal to my God, able to determine for yourself what is good and what is bad, i wish you well.
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14 May 09
So, we've established that this god created the embodiment of evil (the talking snake) and the means for it to tempt other elements of his creation (the tree) and lacked the foresight or understanding to anticipate the temptation being accepted (or else the god intended for this to happen.) In any case I'm sure you'll pull something out of the relevant holes in your head (or somewhere else) to justify this absurdity but the real truth is that it is impossible to make sense of this crap. Believe that angels are even now pirouetting over your keyboard if you want but telling anyone that you can explain and justify this belief only makes you a jester, not a philosopher, and the joke is on you.
14 May 09
7 edits
Originally posted by TerrierJackno, we have established nothing of the sort, you, because of you're lack of knowledge of scriptural truth have concluded, because of your perceptions, that God created 'evil', this is clearly erroneous, for the scriptures themselves state, that the 'original serpent', is Satan, the 'father of the lie', how do we know this, for it is clearly written in the book of revelation, chapter twelve to be precise, what can we therefore conclude, that the actual serpent used, was itself nothing, but was used by Satan, as a ventriloquist would use a dummy, perhaps you can relate to that? therefore all your assertions, having as their basis an assumption, are nothing but unadulterated super double concentrated pants!
So, we've established that this god created the embodiment of evil (the talking snake) and the means for it to tempt other elements of his creation (the tree) and lacked the foresight or understanding to anticipate the temptation being accepted (or else the god intended for this to happen.) In any case I'm sure you'll pull something out of the relevant in and justify this belief only makes you a jester, not a philosopher, and the joke is on you.[/b
I suggest that if you are take part in a serious theological discussion that you be aware of what you are talking about, otherwise, you will simply become toast! one hopes too that you do not base any of your other 'views', on similar jaded perceptions, for to be sure, inaccuracy as in chess, leads to our demise, for as Master Lasker was want to say, lies and hypocrisy don't last long on the chess board, as in life.
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15 May 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackYou can choose to gain an insight to how the ancient Jews became spiritually aware, through the allegory of the Garden Of Eden story, or not.
So, we've established that this god created the embodiment of evil (the talking snake) and the means for it to tempt other elements of his creation (the tree) and lacked the foresight or understanding to anticipate the temptation being accepted (or else the god intended for this to happen.) In any case I'm sure you'll pull something out of the relevant ...[text shortened]... n and justify this belief only makes you a jester, not a philosopher, and the joke is on you.
If you're looking for literal, factual truth, then there is none to be had there and you will come up empty. There are other meanings, however, that can spiritually inform the reader of many thousands of years later.
It's really up to you.
15 May 09
This has always been a hard one for me. I got into a bad argument with my friend who is a pastor about this. If God is all knowing than He knew Adam & Eve would fail this test. I guess you can argue free will and Satan did the actual tempting however why did God create this tree in a place where man could be tempted? Also why are we now held accountable for what Adam & Eve did ? Lastly why is knowing good from evil bad? (I guess you can argue divine prerogative as Robbie says?)
Manny
15 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71id be interested to hear what you pastor friend said, for i have had very little success in discussions with religious professionals myself.
This has always been a hard one for me. I got into a bad argument with my friend who is a pastor about this. If God is all knowing than He knew Adam & Eve would fail this test. I guess you can argue free will and Satan did the actual tempting however why did God create this tree in a place where man could be tempted? Also why are we now held accountable for ...[text shortened]... owing good from evil bad? (I guess you can argue divine prerogative as Robbie says?)
Manny
28 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHislop's work has been described as conspiracy theory propaganda which mixed "sketchy knowledge of Middle Eastern antiquity with a vivid imagination."
Adam gained nothing! and lost almost everything, thus he believed the Satanic lie, that he would be better off independent from God, that God was withholding something good from him. Yes it may be argued that now he was a morally 'free', agent, but now the great universal issue was raised, that being, Gods prerogative as the creator to determine stan ...[text shortened]... ed on top of oneanother, even on the book shelfs, and post what he states about the apple.
28 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71perhaps maybe the premis is wrong. If one believes that the Bible is literally accurate, then of course arguments like this are inevitable. If one takes the view that the creation story and Adam and Eve are allegory, then the rest of the Bible actually begins to make sense.
This has always been a hard one for me. I got into a bad argument with my friend who is a pastor about this. If God is all knowing than He knew Adam & Eve would fail this test. I guess you can argue free will and Satan did the actual tempting however why did God create this tree in a place where man could be tempted? Also why are we now held accountable for ...[text shortened]... owing good from evil bad? (I guess you can argue divine prerogative as Robbie says?)
Manny
edit: just re-read badwaters post, sorry to duplicate ideas.