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    10 Nov '09 12:291 edit
    Natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Bi-products of evolutionary philosophy. Nietzsche, Hitler, Stalin were heavily influenced by Darwin.

    How many people have died as a result of religious wars? Less than three million in known history.

    How many people have died as a result of the above named individuals influence on the course of history? 70 million plus in less than a century.
  2. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    10 Nov '09 12:45
    FAIL
    http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm
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    10 Nov '09 12:521 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Bi-products of evolutionary philosophy. Nietzsche, Hitler, Stalin were heavily influenced by Darwin.

    How many people have died as a result of religious wars? Less than three million in known history.

    How many people have died as a result of the above named individuals influence on the course of history? 70 million plus in less than a century.
    while i sympathise and fully agree with your statement Joseph in that the evolutionary hypothesis was certainly a contributing factor not only in the second, but also the first world wars, it has been shown that wars and the ensuing atrocities have been committed by a broad range of perpetrators, religious and non religious alike.
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    10 Nov '09 13:01
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
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    http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm
    Underscores my point don't you think.

    If evolution is true, then death and destruction follow in it's wake. It seems then that since death is merely a normal consequence of evolution judgement of motive on the part of those that kill is purely subjective and has no basis in morality.
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    10 Nov '09 13:071 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Underscores my point don't you think.

    If evolution is true, then death and destruction follow in it's wake. It seems then that since death is merely a normal consequence of evolution judgement of motive on the part of those that kill is purely subjective and has no basis in morality.
    No, it shows that your figures are completely false.

    You seem to think of evolution as some mysterious force. Try think of it as nature, pure and simple. Yes, death is a natural occurrence.

    'Judge not, lest ye be judged'. Was that statement a cop-out?
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    10 Nov '09 13:16
    Originally posted by josephw
    Natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Bi-products of evolutionary philosophy. Nietzsche, Hitler, Stalin were heavily influenced by Darwin.
    Not influenced, but misinterpreted for their own agenda.

    "Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that was never even used by Darwin.
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    10 Nov '09 13:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    while i sympathise and fully agree with your statement Joseph in that the evolutionary hypothesis was certainly a contributing factor not only in the second, but also the first world wars, it has been shown that wars and the ensuing atrocities have been committed by a broad range of perpetrators, religious and non religious alike.
    But why do people kill? What is the motive?

    It's not so much about who kills who, but about what motivates. While there may be legitimate reasons to kill, self preservation, protection, survival, there seems to be more killing for reasons such as greed, hate, pride, and the like.

    It appears that evolution engenders a philosophy that allows for the dismissal of morality in the name of natural selection.
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    10 Nov '09 13:29
    Originally posted by lausey
    Not influenced, but misinterpreted for their own agenda.

    "Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that was never even used by Darwin.
    Even if Darwin never used the term "survival of the fittest" his followers did.

    Not influenced, but misinterpreted for their own agenda.

    Not influenced? Misapplied certainly.
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    10 Nov '09 13:29
    Originally posted by josephw
    But why do people kill? What is the motive?

    It's not so much about who kills who, but about what motivates. While there may be legitimate reasons to kill, self preservation, protection, survival, there seems to be more killing for reasons such as greed, hate, pride, and the like.

    It appears that evolution engenders a philosophy that allows for the dismissal of morality in the name of natural selection.
    Natural selection is a process. Nothing more, nothing less. To base a philosophy, or define political policy on this is ludicrous.
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    10 Nov '09 13:31
    Originally posted by josephw
    Even if Darwin never used the term "survival of the fittest" his followers did.

    [b]Not influenced, but misinterpreted for their own agenda.


    Not influenced? Misapplied certainly.[/b]
    Even though Jesus never advocated killing Jews as 'Christ-killers', his followers did.

    I think you are trying to ask: is religion a necessary condition for morality?
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    10 Nov '09 13:31
    Originally posted by lausey
    Natural selection is a process. Nothing more, nothing less. To base a philosophy, or define political policy on this is ludicrous.
    then perhaps you are in need of a lesson in history and sociology?
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    10 Nov '09 13:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    then perhaps you are in need of a lesson in history and sociology?
    Lausey is correct in stating that basing philosophy or politics on evolution is absurd, whether or not this has been tried in practice.

    Quite often the most absurd policies have considerable mass appeal.
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    10 Nov '09 13:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    then perhaps you are in need of a lesson in history and sociology?
    I am aware that there are people who have attempted to use Natural Selection for such agenda, and what they have been doing is ludicrous.

    For example, Hitler exterminating whom he believed to be "unfit". Natural selection does not need any influence from us, as the clue is in the title. It works naturally.
  14. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    10 Nov '09 13:35
    Originally posted by lausey
    I am aware that there are people who have attempted to use Natural Selection for such agenda, and what they have been doing is ludicrous.

    For example, Hitler exterminating whom he believed to be "unfit". Natural selection does not need any influence from us, as the clue is in the title. It works naturally.
    I think 'natural selection' is a bogus term, a ghost in the machine. There is no agency that 'selects', is there?
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    10 Nov '09 13:372 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    Even if Darwin never used the term "survival of the fittest" his followers did.

    [b]Not influenced, but misinterpreted for their own agenda.


    Not influenced? Misapplied certainly.[/b]
    that anyone can doubt that there was a ideology built around or certainly influenced by Darwins theory, i do not think can now be disputed, imperialism and even the economic basis for slavery were now justifiable, the Nazis were able to justify and fully accept in almost clinical terms, the genocide of an entire race, euthanasia programs etc etc My own opinion is that the natural exercise of conscience gets supplanted with another ideology, thus atrocities are committed.
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