1. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    15 Sep '10 22:38
    I came across this website about two weeks ago when I was preparing something for our home cell group.
    This by far is the best content I have found about the existence of God. An 8 step guide to proof that God exists.
    To everyone else not believing that God exists, please have a look at these steps and leave your comments here on your believes, feelings and opinions.

    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php
  2. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 22:57
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    This by far is the best content I have found about the existence of God. An 8 step guide to proof that God exists.
    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php
    You really should read more.
  3. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 22:58
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    I came across this website about two weeks ago when I was preparing something for our home cell group.
    This by far is the best content I have found about the existence of God. An 8 step guide to proof that God exists.
    To everyone else not believing that God exists, please have a look at these steps and leave your comments here on your believes, feelings and opinions.

    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php
    I have to believe that ill-conceived arguments such as this do more harm than good for their "cause". It's really weak.

    For those who don't want to work through the process, here's the bottom line.

    The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

    Note that the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not prove things. The argument is that you must borrow from the Christian worldview, and a God who makes universal, immaterial, unchanging laws possible in order to prove anything.

    This type of logical proof deals with ‘transcendentals’ or ‘necessary starting points,’ and the proof is called a ‘transcendental proof.’ Any contrary view to the God of Christianity being the necessary starting point for rationality is reduced to absurdity. You have to assume God in order to argue against Him. Only the Christian worldview can logically support rationality.

    Denying the existence of God is not unbelief but an exercise in self-deception. You may know things, but you cannot account for anything you know. Arguing against God's existence would be on par with arguing against the existence of air, breathing it all the while. You use the universal, immaterial, unchanging laws of logic, mathematics, science, and absolute morality in order to come to rational decisions, but you cannot account for them. These laws are not the only way God has revealed himself to you, but they are sufficient to show the irrationality of your thinking, and expose your guilt for denying Him.

    There is a reason that you deny the existence of God and it has nothing to do with proof. I can show this to you. Examine what your initial reaction was to the proof of God's existence offered on this website. Did you think that you could continue to deny God because you are not a scientist, or philosopher but 'Surely somewhere, sometime, a philosopher or scientist will come up with an explanation for universal, immaterial, unchanging laws apart from God?' Did you try to come up with an alternate explanation on your own? OR Did you even consider that the proof was valid?

    Hoping that an alternate explanation for universal, immaterial, unchanging laws can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking. Isn't it interesting that this is exactly what professed unbelievers accuse Christians of?

    Please examine the real reason why you are running from God. It is my prayer that God will open your eyes and change your heart so that you may be saved from your sin, embraced by His forgiving love, and come to know the peace which passes all understanding.
  4. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 22:581 edit
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    I came across this website about two weeks ago when I was preparing something for our home cell group.
    This by far is the best content I have found about the existence of God. An 8 step guide to proof that God exists.
    To everyone else not believing that God exists, please have a look at these steps and leave your comments here on your believes, feelings and opinions.

    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php
    Just curious, what's a "home cell group"?
  5. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 22:59
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    I came across this website about two weeks ago when I was preparing something for our home cell group.
    This by far is the best content I have found about the existence of God. An 8 step guide to proof that God exists.
    To everyone else not believing that God exists, please have a look at these steps and leave your comments here on your believes, feelings and opinions.

    http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php
    Ah this is presuppositionalism, I have seen this site before and debated with its author. I find the arguments unconvincing.

    Can I ask though, what is a 'home cell group'?
  6. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 23:03
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    Ah this is presuppositionalism, I have seen this site before and debated with its author. I find the arguments unconvincing.

    Can I ask though, what is a 'home cell group'?
    lol. I asked the same question. I hope he does the right thing and answers me first 🙂
  7. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 23:061 edit
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    Can I ask though, what is a 'home cell group'?
    Nicksten, will probably give his own account, but when I was part of an organised religion, a home cell group was where smaller groups of members of the larger organisaton met in someones house (normally a junior leader), for what in my experience, was a more personalised version of the indoctrination you received on Sunday.
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    15 Sep '10 23:33
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Nicksten, will probably give his own account, but when I was part of an organised religion, a home cell group was where smaller groups of members of the larger organisaton met in someones house (normally a junior leader), for what in my experience, was a more personalised version of the indoctrination you received on Sunday.
    When did you cease being part of an organized religion?
  9. Joined
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    15 Sep '10 23:39
    Originally posted by rwingett
    When did you cease being part of an organized religion?
    Several years ago.

    By organised I mean the denominational system.
  10. Donationbbarr
    Chief Justice
    Center of Contention
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    16 Sep '10 01:44
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I have to believe that ill-conceived arguments such as this do more harm than good for their "cause". It's really weak.

    For those who don't want to work through the process, here's the bottom line.

    The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

    Note that the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not ...[text shortened]... forgiving love, and come to know the peace which passes all understanding.
    Wow, talk about having not read Kant. How embarrassing for the author.
  11. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    16 Sep '10 06:45
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Nicksten, will probably give his own account, but when I was part of an organised religion, a home cell group was where smaller groups of members of the larger organisaton met in someones house (normally a junior leader), for what in my experience, was a more personalised version of the indoctrination you received on Sunday.
    Lord Shark, ThinkOfOne
    divegeester has explained it well. Sunday services are still there, but the home cell session are normally during the week, for ex ours is on Wednesdays.
  12. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    16 Sep '10 06:54
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You really should read more.
    I do read a lot, but barely find the content to hook me into finishing it.
    This was quite impressing to me and maybe if there is one person out there that agrees, then we are 2 😉

    I am not on a level to argue the lecture of the author on the website given. ThinkOfOne has given us a breakdown of the content, although much was left out in the comment section about the site.
  13. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    16 Sep '10 07:07
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I have to believe that ill-conceived arguments such as this do more harm than good for their "cause". It's really weak.

    For those who don't want to work through the process, here's the bottom line.

    The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

    Note that the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not ...[text shortened]... forgiving love, and come to know the peace which passes all understanding.
    Well I certainly agree the facts are valid. It just makes sense to me. I think I am more open on a non-technical level which allows me to think that way. If you're technically looking at the facts the author of the site has given, you may find it difficult to agree with. This unfortunately is the same everywhere on earth. If people are not on the same level - they do not agree. This isn't at all bad.

    I have to say that the home-cell group was also impressed - and it made sense to us all 😀
  14. Cape Town
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    16 Sep '10 10:31
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Well I certainly agree the facts are valid. It just makes sense to me.
    It sounds more like it made you feel good than that you actually understood any of it.
  15. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    16 Sep '10 10:56
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It sounds more like it made you feel good than that you actually understood any of it.
    I understood it very well. If by stating something makes sense, you're understanding it 😉
    What are your remarks on the content of the website given twhitehead?
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