1. Donationbuckky
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    16 Feb '12 02:16
    Faith is what the suicide bombers have when they blow themself up knowing they will go to heaven and live forever with a bunch of women dropping food in their mouth .Faith is what fueled the Crusades. When God is on your side you can get very dangerous . I think Faith is something to worry about .
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    16 Feb '12 02:40
    Originally posted by buckky
    Faith is what the suicide bombers have when they blow themself up knowing they will go to heaven and live forever with a bunch of women dropping food in their mouth .Faith is what fueled the Crusades. When God is on your side you can get very dangerous . I think Faith is something to worry about .
    one of my favorite lines from a classical war movie, "the longest day"

    colonel vandervoort (john wayne) says "sometimes i wonder which side god is on"

    later on, major general gunther blumentritt (curd jurgens) says the exact same thing in german!
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    16 Feb '12 03:223 edits
    Originally posted by buckky
    Faith is what the suicide bombers have when they blow themself up knowing they will go to heaven and live forever with a bunch of women dropping food in their mouth .Faith is what fueled the Crusades. When God is on your side you can get very dangerous . I think Faith is something to worry about .
    Obviously faith is the problem. How then can we get everyone to lose faith in God and society at large?

    Losing faith is our only hope....er.....um.....not hope because that involves faith. I know, why not just jump off a bridge? 😛

    Edit: As for faith being something to worry about, you betcha!!! After all, it can move mountains. 😀
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Feb '12 03:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    Losing faith is our only hope....er.....um.....not hope because that involves faith. I know, why not just jump off a bridge?
    Without 'faith' you might consider killing yourself?
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    16 Feb '12 04:12
    Originally posted by FMF
    Without 'faith' you might consider killing yourself?
    Faith is equivalent to hope in my book. It is the hope that we can place our faith in our fellow man and the hope that we can place our faith in a loving God that overseas all that is.

    Of course, without hope what is left FMF?
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Feb '12 04:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    Of course, without hope what is left FMF?
    Well, there's life, whodey, in all its wonder, there's love and being loved, there's family and community, there's the unbridled human spirit, and there is this marvelous, motley, mercurial world in which we make our way with our seemingly incredible faculties.

    Not for me your dreary pessimism and your there-must-be-more-to-life-than-this religionist negativity about 'what else is there?' bar 'faith' and 'hope'.

    Not for me your blithe references to suicide or your attempt to project the meaninglessness you perceive onto everyone under the guise of 'analysis' of the human condition.

    The survival instinct and the appetite for life are fundamental to our human nature. You make it sound as if 'faith' serves to compensate for some degree of deficiency or inadequacy in one's humanity: not a very edifying advertisement for 'faith'.
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    16 Feb '12 08:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    Faith is equivalent to hope in my book. It is the hope that we can place our faith in our fellow man and the hope that we can place our faith in a loving God that overseas all that is.

    Of course, without hope what is left FMF?
    It is very sad that you feel you need faith to have hope.

    There are many who have multiple reasons to have hope beyond faith in something such as your God.
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    16 Feb '12 09:50
    "Faith, you're driving me away
    You do it everyday
    You don't mean it
    But it hurts like hell"
    radiohead.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    16 Feb '12 16:031 edit
    Originally posted by buckky
    Faith is what the suicide bombers have when they blow themself up knowing they will go to heaven and live forever with a bunch of women dropping food in their mouth .Faith is what fueled the Crusades. When God is on your side you can get very dangerous . I think Faith is something to worry about .
    No. Faith is NOT "what fueled" the Crusades. The Crusades were fueled by hate, distrust, fear, and greed. They were also fueled by faithless men in charge of the Church who thought they didn't have quite enough power or riches. They used the weak faith of others against them to achieve their ends.

    The same reasoning is what is behind the suicide bombers and those who use their faith against them to achieve their worldly desires. Faith has nothing to do with it, except that those who are weak have their faith twisted against them and used not for holy reasons, but for unholy reasons. Worry not about Faith. Worry instead about those without faith, who cannot control their hate, their fear, their greed and twist the weak faith of others into an unholy tool to sate their own lusts.
  10. Hmmm . . .
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    16 Feb '12 16:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well, there's life, whodey, in all its wonder, there's love and being loved, there's family and community, there's the unbridled human spirit, and there is this marvelous, motley, mercurial world in which we make our way with our seemingly incredible faculties.

    Not for me your dreary pessimism and your there-must-be-more-to-life-than-this religionist negativ ...[text shortened]... or inadequacy in one's humanity: not a very edifying advertisement for 'faith'.
    That is the kind of attitude that makes some religious views (including those of some Christians) nihilistic toward the world and this existence—while sometimes claiming that nihilism is strictly a feature of atheism, or perhaps of competing religions.

    I call this existential nihilism, and I think that its seeds might lie in a kind of intellectual laziness—wanting to be given meaning (significance) from some exogenous source, rather than doing the work of finding meaning. It also denies the inescapable role of “the grammar of our consciousness” in deciphering “the syntax of the universe”. It is this kind of denial that Camus called “absurd” ( he did not say that life, or existence, is absurd).
  11. Donationbuckky
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    16 Feb '12 16:43
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    No. Faith is NOT "what fueled" the Crusades. The Crusades were fueled by hate, distrust, fear, and greed. They were also fueled by faithless men in charge of the Church who thought they didn't have quite enough power or riches. They used the weak faith of others against them to achieve their ends.

    The same reasoning is what is behind the suicide bomb ...[text shortened]... , their greed and twist the weak faith of others into an unholy tool to sate their own lusts.
    So if you happen to be weak watch because you could be sold a bill of goods in the form of Faith ? Sometimes the so called strong only apear to be strong because of a loud mouthed rough quality that is used very well up in the pulpit . Faith can be the great illusion that you have the Truth and all others that don't agree are some how weak or evil and in need of punishment .
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    16 Feb '12 17:43
    Originally posted by buckky
    Faith is what the suicide bombers have when they blow themself up knowing they will go to heaven and live forever with a bunch of women dropping food in their mouth .Faith is what fueled the Crusades. When God is on your side you can get very dangerous . I think Faith is something to worry about .
    What faith really is is a conversation stopper. You can question somebody on their beliefs (age of the earth, dinosaurs on Noah's ark, etc.) and no matter how much logic you use or evidence you provide you will get nowhere. Because people will ultimately fall back on faith to cut off debate. Faith is the ultimate defense mechanism against having your beliefs challenged.
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    16 Feb '12 18:34
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well, there's life, whodey, in all its wonder, there's love and being loved, there's family and community, there's the unbridled human spirit, and there is this marvelous, motley, mercurial world in which we make our way with our seemingly incredible faculties.

    .
    As usual, you miss what I am saying entirely. Life is all about love and faith is an element of that love. Then again, maybe you love those you are not willing to place any faith. If so, I stand corrected.
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    16 Feb '12 19:17
    Originally posted by vistesd
    That is the kind of attitude that makes some religious views (including those of some Christians) [b]nihilistic toward the world and this existence—while sometimes claiming that nihilism is strictly a feature of atheism, or perhaps of competing religions.

    I call this existential nihilism, and I think that its seeds might ...[text shortened]... f denial that Camus called “absurd” ( he did not say that life, or existence, is absurd).[/b]
    I suppose when I say "faith" it is automatically assumed I refer to faith in God only. This is absurd. People place their faith in a myriad of things and people. All I am saying is that such faith is a byproduct of loving people and other things.

    And so it goes, if you have no where to place your faith, such as a loved one, then your life simply is not worth living. As for when you die....well.....you have no place to place your faith except for a God of some sort.
  15. Hmmm . . .
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    16 Feb '12 20:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    I suppose when I say "faith" it is automatically assumed I refer to faith in God only. This is absurd. People place their faith in a myriad of things and people. All I am saying is that such faith is a byproduct of loving people and other things.

    And so it goes, if you have no where to place your faith, such as a loved one, then your life simply is not ...[text shortened]... when you die....well.....you have no place to place your faith except for a God of some sort.
    Understood. But I wouldn’t want to discount the importance of aesthetics: what, and how much, about being alive and here that you find beautiful or enriching. I am in no way arguing that people may not become in such desperate straits that FMF’s natural “survival instinct and the appetite for life” can be tragically undermined by circumstance, and they become suicidal. I simply argue against any view that implies that, absent some exogenous factor (gods, heaven, life after death, whatever), such existential nihilism is necessarily predicated.
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