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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesLot's wife became a pillar of salt because she took a lingering look backward at Sodom, indicating that she loved and treasured the evil place that was under God's judgment.
Does being turned into a pillar of salt fall under this category?
Did Lot's wife have an opportunity to avail herself of any of the five types of forgiveness between her sin of disobedience and her penal transformation into sodium chloride?
This should be a lesson to all Christians wanting to be physically raptured out of the world to escape judgment. It is not enough that the believer be physically taken out of the world that is to be utterly destroyed. Inwardly, in the heart, she or he must be removed so that there is no glancing back.
Lot's wife was rescued from Sodom, but she did not reach the safe place that her husband reached (Gen. 19:15-30)
She did not perish. But neither was she fully saved in the sense of arriving at the intended destination. She should correspond to the one eternally forgiven yet who must be set aside in the millennial kingdom - the Fifth form of forgiveness not yet elaborated on here.
Jesus warned about the salt that becomes tastless (Luke 14:34-35)
"Therefore salt is good; but if even the salt becomes tasteless, with what will its saltiness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure pile; theyt will throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Luke 14:34,35)
The land may represent the church as the form of God (1 Cor. 3:9) with its coming kingdom reward of the millennium. And the manure pile may represent the eternal damnation. The tasteless salt is not good for either place. Such a Christian is not good for the reward of the millennial kingdom and not good to be eternally condemend either.
They go to a third place - not the kingdom and not eternal perdition. It is a place of temporary shame until they be perfected.
More to follow.
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The believers in Christ are to be the salt of the earth. Salt preserves preserves food and eliminates corruption.
The disciple of Jesus are used by God to prevent the earth from becomming completely corrupt. The taste of these believers depends on thier renouncing of earthly things. The more they recounce the things of the earth, the more powerful will be thier taste.
If they refuse to renounce the things of the present life they are in danger of losing their salty taste. If this happens they are neither fit for the land, signifying the church as God's farm (1 Cor. 3:9), nor the manure pile signifying the eternal perdition as the place where all the filty things of the world finally go (Rev. 21:8; 22:15)
They will be thrown out from the kingdom of God, especially from the glory of the millennial kingdom to come.
They are saved from eternal perdition. They will not perish in the second death.. BUt because they have failed to renounce the earthly things they lose their function in the kingdom of God. They are unfit for the coming kingdom and are in need of being put aside for discipline which is a shame.
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Originally posted by jaywillEDIT: removal of my not-on-point blatherings.
Lot's wife became a pillar of salt because she took a lingering look backward at Sodom, indicating that she loved and treasured the evil place that was under God's judgment.
This should be a lesson to all Christians wanting to be physically raptured out of the world to escape judgment. It is not enough that the believer be physically taken out of the w l perdition. It is a place of temporary shame until they be perfected.
More to follow.
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWell she certainly came to good use when they needed flavoring for their eggs and salads.....Wait, maybe they pulled a fast one and made her MAGNESIUM Choride. That would suck.
Does being turned into a pillar of salt fall under this category?
Did Lot's wife have an opportunity to avail herself of any of the five types of forgiveness between her sin of disobedience and her penal transformation into sodium chloride?
Originally posted by jaywillMust suck to have so much utter nonsense cluttering up your brain all the time, jaywill. Probably doesn't leave much time for engaging in meaningful projects that actually matter. Doesn't it make you sad that your big bad daddy in the sky has to spend all his time keeping track of punishments he must inflict and times when he must inflict them? What a sad, pathetic existence. On the other hand, he gets to reign supreme in the "millennial kingdom". That at least sounds pretty bitchin.
There are five consequences of sinning in the Bible. Correspondingly there are five kinds of forgiveness.
Unless readers are aware of these differences they will be confused.
The consequence of sin determines the kind of forgiveness involved.
First here are the five consquences of sin in the Bible:
1.) Eternal perdition
2.) Separation fro ...[text shortened]... borate on the five kinds of forgiveness related to these five kinds of consequences of sin.
Originally posted by LemonJelloDon't worry, he's got it all computerised. Obviously he couln't actually tell us that in the Bible as there was no appropriate term at the time and nobody would have understood anyway. The closest concept at the time was a large book with all your sins / punishments written in it.
Must suck to have so much utter nonsense cluttering up your brain all the time, jaywill. Probably doesn't leave much time for engaging in meaningful projects that actually matter. Doesn't it make you sad that your big bad daddy in the sky has to spend all his time keeping track of punishments he must inflict and times when he must inflict them? What a ...[text shortened]... he gets to reign supreme in the "millennial kingdom". That at least sounds pretty bitchin.
What I find interesting is that many Christians claim that there are no actual punishments for sins and that separation from God is punishment enough, yet this does not really tally with the Bible and even people makeing the claim keep straying back to a sin / punishment model.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf that is the case, the entire world's population is being punished by being removed from this god. Do YOU see any evidence for a god around here? I sure don't. I see a lot of evidence of god totally ignoring wacked out behaviour by the religious in the form of religious wars killing millions with no word from this god that such a thing is patently wrong. No word tells me there is no god or it does not give a rats asss about humans one way or the other, maybe instead thinking, what can I do to rid the planet of these pests?
Don't worry, he's got it all computerised. Obviously he couln't actually tell us that in the Bible as there was no appropriate term at the time and nobody would have understood anyway. The closest concept at the time was a large book with all your sins / punishments written in it.
What I find interesting is that many Christians claim that there are no ...[text shortened]... h the Bible and even people makeing the claim keep straying back to a sin / punishment model.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesQ: Is being turned into a pillar of salt a soluble problem?
Does being turned into a pillar of salt fall under this category?
Did Lot's wife have an opportunity to avail herself of any of the five types of forgiveness between her sin of disobedience and her penal transformation into sodium chloride?
A: Yes, given enough holy water.
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Originally posted by LemonJello===================================
Must suck to have so much utter nonsense cluttering up your brain all the time, jaywill. Probably doesn't leave much time for engaging in meaningful projects that actually matter. Doesn't it make you sad that your big bad daddy in the sky has to spend all his time keeping track of punishments he must inflict and times when he must inflict them? What a ...[text shortened]... he gets to reign supreme in the "millennial kingdom". That at least sounds pretty bitchin.
Must suck to have so much utter nonsense cluttering up your brain all the time, jaywill.
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This one particular subject does not fill my mind all the time. Like any other serious student of a particulkar large work when the need arises, I concentrate on a particular subject.
It doesn't mean that this is the only topic in the Bible. I am quite a joyous reader and explorer oc this wonderful and divine book.
I can assure you that you have nothing better to offer me than many happy years to come diving into the treasures of wisdom and knowledge of the Bible.
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Probably doesn't leave much time for engaging in meaningful projects that actually matter.
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Quite the contrary. The refreshes me to work on many other projects which I can then do in the presence of the God I love.
For instance I am a composer which is quite labor intensive.
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Doesn't it make you sad that your big bad daddy in the sky has to spend all his time keeping track of punishments he must inflict and times when he must inflict them?
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I have many discussions on this board going. Most of them are not involved in this particular subject. I thought the need arose for a concentration on this subject.
Case in point: Beyond Going To Heaven
I also had a talk on the human spirit. Neither of these had anything much to do with judgment or forgiveness.
There is such a thing as "focus" for a time.
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What a sad, pathetic existence. On the other hand, he gets to reign supreme in the "millennial kingdom". That at least sounds pretty bitchin.
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I assure you that you have nothing better to offer me than the many joyous years of Christ and the enjoyment of God and His truth.
You can save your sympathy. Now if that is all you have to say, I will get back to my discussion.
Number 5 - Forgiveness in the Kingdom
IF we cannot differentiate between the various kinds of forgiveness in reading the Bible, we will encounter difficulties.
Six times the 20th chapter of Revelation mentions the reign of Christ and His overcoming believers for 1,000 years BEFORE the age of the new heaven and the new earth.
1.) The Satanic enemy is bound for 1000 years (v.2).
2.) Satan should deceive the nations no more for 1000 years (v.3)
3.) The martyred overcomers reign with Christ for 1000 years (v.4)
4.) The rest of the dead did not resurrected for another 1000 years (v.5)
5.) The priests of God reign for 1000 years (v.6)
6.) Satan will be loosed from his prison for a little while after those 1000 years (v.7)
During this time of 1000 years before the eternal age Christ still has opportunity to deal with some of His saved people. God will have some of them in a kind of "summer school" of make up lessons.
The parables in Matthew definite show dealings of reward and discipline towards CHrist's servants AFTER the second coming of Christ. These relate to the dealings during the millennial kingdom reign.
There will be some forgiveness administered at that time. This is the fifth kind of forgiveness. For example parable of the unforgiving servant in Matthew18:21 - 35 is a teaching about Christ dealing with a servant of His AFTER His second coming.
Originally posted by jaywillWhat sort of music do you compose?
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Must suck to have so much utter nonsense cluttering up your brain all the time, jaywill.
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This one particular subject does not fill my mind all the time. Like any other serious student of a particulkar large work when the need arises, I concentrate on a particular subjec ...[text shortened]... save your sympathy. Now if that is all you have to say, I will get back to my discussion.[/b]
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIf you hadn't noticed, there was not a whole lot of forgiveness going on in OT times.
Does being turned into a pillar of salt fall under this category?
Did Lot's wife have an opportunity to avail herself of any of the five types of forgiveness between her sin of disobedience and her penal transformation into sodium chloride?
Originally posted by whodeyI don't think you should make the mistake of over generalizing.
If you hadn't noticed, there was not a whole lot of forgiveness going on in OT times.
There is much forgiveness in the Old Testament.
First of all, all the Livitical sacrifices such as Sin Offering, Trespas Offering, Peace Offering were related to forgiveness.
Then you have God sparing Adam and promising salvation.
Then you have God not judging Cain as harshly as He certainly could have.
Look at the 150 some Psalms. Would you say that there is no mention of forgiveness in any of those 150 Psalms.
The Henbrew kings also had a reputation of being merciful kings.
Read through again and ask yourself, "How much forgivness do I notice in these books."
Of course to be fair, Paul did call the old covenant "the ministry of condemnation". But there is much forgiveness, forebearance, pardon in the Old Testament.