For God so loved the world

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
is this a faith-based observation? maybe you should pray for more guidance.

Yes, you do the same.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===================================
Believing in a God who will send people to Hell simply for not 'believing' in Him is what is 'warped'.
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A place that people themselves want, that is without God, is by its own charateristics, a hell.

Hell is your escape. There you get yourself. That's al ...[text shortened]... is not a trivial Person or His work a trivial matter. It is full of weighty significance.[/b]

Well that's a lovely sermon but your so wide of the mark it's frankly embarrassing. I'll pick out a few of the 'gems' from this diatribe and respond to them for you.

A place that people themselves want, that is without God, is by its own charateristics, a hell.

So my life, devoid of God as i'm an atheist, is a hell. Charming. No bells ringing there.

Hell is your escape. There you get yourself. That's all you wanted.

So all i've wanted is to get to hell. Mmmmm??!!! Nope, still no bells ringing.

Unless God works in your being to conform you to the image of His Son, yourself, as it is in this fallen world, will be your hell.

So i've been told numerous times.

The sinner has there a rendevous with his conscience. The conscience will finally catch up to him.

I have a conscience already thanks, i strive to be as decent a human being as i possibly can. And guess what?! No threat of hell is needed for me to do that. Now YOU might need an Argumentum ad baculum to make you a better person. Fine, whatever rocks you boat, none is needed this end.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==============================
If you jump out of the window of a five story building do you hold the physics teacher of having a personal threat against you, that the law of gravity will smash you upon the pavement ?

That doesn't make sense. Could you rephrase that please?
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The point of the analogy ...[text shortened]... eous procedure is there. But you and I have the power to refuse or receive this salvation.[/b]

Again, lovely sermon if you're that way inclined. It's wasted on me though.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Again, lovely sermon if you're that way inclined. It's wasted on me though.

The word of God does not go forth in vain.

It will either open the heart or harden it more.

I have no sense of having wasted time, word, or prayer.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Well that's a lovely sermon but your so wide of the mark it's frankly embarrassing. I'll pick out a few of the 'gems' from this diatribe and respond to them for you.

[b]A place that people themselves want, that is without God, is by its own charateristics, a hell.

So my life, devoid of God as i'm an atheist, is a hell. Charming. No bells ringin i] to make you a better person. Fine, whatever rocks you boat, none is needed this end.[/b]

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I have a conscience already thanks, i strive to be as decent a human being as i possibly can. And guess what?! No threat of hell is needed for me to do that. Now YOU might need an Argumentum ad baculum to make you a better person. Fine, whatever rocks you boat, none is needed this end.
===========================

That has a nice noble sound to it. But justification before God is according to God's standard of righteousness.

You can sling around Latin phrases all you like. God wants His Son, PERFECTION, your striving to be a "better person" will amount to filthy rags in comparison.

Even if you were perfect from today on, which is unlikely, you still have your sins from the past up until this day.

You expect God will just say "Let's just forget about those sins" ?
It won't work that way.

Originally posted by jaywill
The word of God does not go forth in vain.

It will either open the heart or harden it more.

I have no sense of having wasted time, word, or prayer.

It will either open the heart or harden it more.

Or it will just wash over me. Have you ever considered that option?

I have no sense of having wasted time, word, or prayer.

I have no doubt you believe your time isn't being wasted, i'm telling you your proselytizing is wasted on me.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================
I have a conscience already thanks, i strive to be as decent a human being as i possibly can. And guess what?! No threat of hell is needed for me to do that. Now YOU might need an Argumentum ad baculum to make you a better person. Fine, whatever rocks you boat, none is needed this end.
===========================

Th ...[text shortened]... expect God will just say "Let's just forget about those sins" ?
It won't work that way.[/b]

But justification before God is according to [b]God's standard of righteousness.[/b]

Well that's just a load of 'theolodgeababble'!! You need some magical divine element to be good, i don't. There's not a lot more i can say to that.

One quick question, do you think you're a better person than me simply because you believe in your Christian God and i don't?!

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================
I have a conscience already thanks, i strive to be as decent a human being as i possibly can. And guess what?! No threat of hell is needed for me to do that. Now YOU might need an Argumentum ad baculum to make you a better person. Fine, whatever rocks you boat, none is needed this end.
===========================

Th ...[text shortened]... expect God will just say "Let's just forget about those sins" ?
It won't work that way.[/b]

"You expect God will just say "Let's just forget about those sins" ?
It won't work that way."

This thread started with a statement of God's love.

Originally posted by JS357
"You expect God will just say "Let's just forget about those sins" ?
It won't work that way."

This thread started with a statement of God's love.

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This thread started with a statement of God's love.
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It is still on God's love. He so loved the world that He could not only unleash His judgment against sin according to His attribute of righteousness. He loved. But He would not for the sake of His love give up His righteousness.

Calvary is where the love of God and the righteousness of God work together. If He were to judge sin mercilessly, He would be without love. But if He were to let man's sins go without judging them, He would be without righteousness.

Because God is righteous, He had to judge sin. Because God is love, He had to bear man's sin for him.

These two lines of His attributes we must emphasize. God must judge sin because He is righteous. And God bears man's judgment in the Son because He is love. He so loved the world that He gave His only Son to bear the punishment.

Without judgment, we see no righteousness.
With judgment only we see no love. But on the cross of Jesus we see both righteousness and love. Christ came to bear the judgment on our behalf. And in this way both the divine love and the divine righteousness were manifested in Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by RJHinds
They knew better and if you had read Genesis, you would know
that they knew better.

Jip I agree - it would have been totally different if they didn't know but they knew not to eat from the tree.

Dasa will not like the puppy beating example that VoidSpirit used 😀

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Again, lovely sermon if you're that way inclined. It's wasted on me though.

I think he has lovely sermons, too

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]But justification before God is according to [b]God's standard of righteousness.[/b]

Well that's just a load of 'theolodgeababble'!! You need some magical divine element to be good, i don't. There's not a lot more i can say to that.

One quick question, do you think you're a better person than me simply because you believe in your Christian God and i don't?![/b]

If any Christian says yes to your answer that will be some fool.
"Better person" has many meanings...example:
I could be a better person to speak at a function etc.

To simply be a better person than any one else out there just because you believe in something is something you'd have to provide physical evidence to prove your statement.

I would however say (from a Christian point of view) that a Christian would obviously think they are BETTER OFF than an atheist at THE END OF THE DAY.

I am not a better person than anyone participating in this Forum. I am only a sinner saved by grace.

I will stand before God and boldly proclaim that I stand upon Christ as my righteousness, and upon Him alone. I stand clothed in Christ as my garment of salvation.

Anyone who wants to argue that they are a better person than I, I have no argument about that. I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life and be found in Him.

Whatever I had was crucified with Christ and buried with Him too. I stand now upon His merit. I know no other stand.

Originally posted by jaywill
I am not a better person than anyone participating in this Forum. I am only a sinner saved by grace.

I will stand before God and boldly proclaim that I stand upon Christ as my righteousness, and upon Him [b]alone. I stand clothed in Christ as my garment of salvation.

Anyone who wants to argue that they are a better person than I, I have no ar ...[text shortened]... rucified with Christ and buried with Him too. I stand now upon His merit. I know no other stand.[/b]

Here's the thing. This is what you said on page two of this thread (the bold emphasis was added by yourself) -

One who breaks the law of God can be saved. But as an unreconciled enemy of His law he is cursed. A cursed person is vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked. This is the transgressor of the law of God. So He sent a salvation to save us from remaining forever vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked - cursed.

As an atheist surely i am an 'unreconciled enemy of His law' and therefore cursed?! As as you so eloquently put, twice in fact with bold emphasis the second time, a cursed person is 'vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked'. Now your claiming to be Mr Humble and have no argument if someone wants to 'argue that they are a better person than i'?!

Do you believe i am 'vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked'?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Here's the thing. This is what you said on page two of this thread (the bold emphasis was added by yourself) -

[quote]One who breaks the law of God can be saved. But as an unreconciled enemy of His law he is cursed. A cursed person is vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked. This is the transgressor of the law of God. So He sent a salvat ...[text shortened]... an i'?!

Do you believe i am 'vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery and wicked'?

You still have time to repent of your sins and accept Jesus as your
Lord and Savior. Then you can be forgiven and cleansed by the
blood of Christ from all wickedness and your faith can be counted
to you as righteousness.