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@divegeester saidSounds like something that someone who hopes for forgiveness would say.
By the same principle that holding a grudge harms the holder.
The burden in both cases, is held by the offended, the disgruntled person in the scenario.
Therefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
Thoughts?
16 Nov 22
@kevin-eleven saidOf course there is reciprocation, it’s not a binary premise.
Sounds like something that someone who hopes for forgiveness would say.
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@divegeester saidI am of course aware of Marcus Aurelius' notes to himself [and shame on those of us who have read them without his express permission!], but I don't remember a single time you have ever apologized to me -- let alone at length or with any credible degree of sincerity (for example).
Of course there is reciprocation, it’s not a binary premise.
Probably too occupied with nostalgically huffing the gangrenous aromas of «les vestiges ratatinés» in your own gusset.
😉
@divegeester saidI think forgiveness can be therapeutic for the one doing the forgiving. However, this may not be the case: like if the forgiven party is unrepentant or just repeats whatever it was that was forgiven. Meanwhile, I don't think NOT forgiving someone is necessarily harmful.
By the same principle that holding a grudge harms the holder.
The burden in both cases, is held by the offended, the disgruntled person in the scenario.
Therefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
Thoughts?
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@fmf said@FMF, something I have recently appreciated about you is that a few days ago when I apologized to someone about something (not sure who or what -- we might need to check the text record about that), you subsequently (even given that context) made some posts about this or that topic without any demand that I also apologize to you for all the putative wrongdoings enumerated in your shopworn litany of grievances. That is -- without being immoderate -- to some extent respectable. Thank you for that.
I think forgiveness can be therapeutic for the one doing the forgiving. However, this may not be the case: like if the forgiven party is unrepentant or just repeats whatever it was that was forgiven. Meanwhile, I don't think NOT forgiving someone is necessarily harmful.
@kevin-eleven saidWhat on earth should I apologise to you for?
I don't remember a single time you have ever apologized to me -- let alone at length or with any credible degree of sincerity (for example).
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@divegeester saidA man without a memory is a man without a conscience.
What on earth should I apologise to you for?
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@kevin-eleven saidBut in the above post you wrote:
A man without a memory is a man without a conscience.
"when I apologized to someone about something (not sure who or what -- we might need to check the text record about that) "
Does your lack of memory about the disparaging remarks you made about another poster's family, mean you lack a conscience in this regard?
17 Nov 22
1 edit
@divegeester saidTherefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
By the same principle that holding a grudge harms the holder.
The burden in both cases, is held by the offended, the disgruntled person in the scenario.
Therefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
Thoughts?
I don't think so. If someone is about to be executed with a gun, forgiving the executioner is not going to "benefit" the guy with the bullet in his skull.
17 Nov 22
@mchill saidJesus said to forgive so that you will in return get forgiveness from God. So it benefits the forgiver who will reap the rewards.
Therefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
I don't think so. If someone is about to be executed with a gun, forgiving the executioner is not going to "benefit" the guy with the bullet in his skull.
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18 Nov 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidO thou bitter and rancorous gust of a huffy spirit, who intrudes into the affairs of others for reasons unknown: you are clearly disingenuous when you pretend to be a stranger to irony.
But in the above post you wrote:
"when I apologized to someone about something (not sure who or what -- we might need to check the text record about that) "
Does your lack of memory about the disparaging remarks you made about another poster's family, mean you lack a conscience in this regard?
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18 Nov 22
@rajk999 saidThis model of forgiveness sounds rather transactional and in today's climate might even be considered anti-Semitic.
Jesus said to forgive so that you will in return get forgiveness from God. So it benefits the forgiver who will reap the rewards.
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18 Nov 22
@mchill saidOn a tangent, it's nice to imagine there must have been some executioners who said or even just thought something along the lines of "Sorry about this, dude," before they did the deed.
Therefore to forgive even without that forgiveness being requested, will always benefit the forgiver.
I don't think so. If someone is about to be executed with a gun, forgiving the executioner is not going to "benefit" the guy with the bullet in his skull.