1. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 05:00
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    What bearing do your moral, spiritual, philosophical and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
  2. Standard memberchaney3
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    13 Sep '15 05:09
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    What do you care??? You are a former Christian who is now an atheist. According to you, there is NO plan. So......what do you care FMF???

    You cannot have it both ways.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 05:12
    Originally posted by chaney3
    What do you care??? You are a former Christian who is now an atheist. According to you, there is NO plan. So......what do you care FMF???

    You cannot have it both ways.
    One does not have to be a Christian to discuss the moral, spiritual, philosophical and religious factors affecting an issue like the one in the OP.
  4. Standard memberchaney3
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    13 Sep '15 05:15
    Originally posted by FMF
    One does not have to be a Christian to discuss the moral, spiritual, philosophical and religious factors affecting an issue like the one in the OP.
    I brought this up earlier, and will bring it up again. Do YOU FMF care at all about that little baby that washed up ashore dead? Because if you do.......it washes away any debate here.

    We are humans......and should care about humans.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 05:29
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I brought this up earlier, and will bring it up again. Do YOU FMF care at all about that little baby that washed up ashore dead? Because if you do.......it washes away any debate here.

    We are humans......and should care about humans.
    But proponents of the Christian God and their theology do not claim that their God figure should have intervened to save that poor toddler's life. So in terms of their ideology, the fact that their God figure indeed did not intervene is not an indictment of their notion of God.
  6. Cape Town
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    13 Sep '15 05:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    I am very much in support of the idea of free movement. I feel that assigning people to nation states at birth is grossly unfair and that treating people based on their country of origin is akin to racism.

    I am not sure how the world would change should the rules keeping people in their place be removed. The vast majority of people would not move, but certainly more people would move than currently do. I know of a lot of people that wished to move and many of them eventually did so, to countries that were willing to accept them (Canada, and New Zealand come to mind).
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    13 Sep '15 06:00
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    We could forget all the theistic chatter, except why post this on the SF?

    You say, "What would the world be like ... if the free movement of people across international borders,,, were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?"

    First, legalized by whom and how enforced? because implement would certainly imply enforcement. I'd say it would be a Hobbesian war of all against all. We divide up and limit that war with national borders nowadays, but it is a war nonetheless. Look at Hungary,
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 06:12
    Originally posted by JS357
    We could forget all the theistic chatter, except why post this on the SF?
    I'm interested in how one's religious/spiritual/humanistic beliefs might affect one's approach to this political issue.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 06:14
    Originally posted by JS357
    First, legalized by whom and how enforced?
    I suppose I had the shedding of certain legal requirements and restrictions in mind and therefore the end of enforcement of those
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    13 Sep '15 06:543 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    The barriers seem to vary from country to country based on the prevailing social, political and religious influences. In principle people should be able to migrate where they want and when they want to, but isn't this a utopian dream. The barriers preventing a poorer, less educated population access to a (non specific) richer and predominantly more educated one, are generally fiscal not necessarily religious. The same principle of why you may choose not to invite several unemployed, low prospect people to come and live in and have free access to your home and possessions. It could be argued that this is precisely what we should all be doing, but we don't. Until people have the inclination to open thier doors to their immediate needy neighbours, they will be unlikely to open their country.
  11. Cape Town
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    13 Sep '15 08:26
    Originally posted by divegeester
    The same principle of why you may choose not to invite several unemployed, low prospect people to come and live in and have free access to your home and possessions. It could be argued that this is precisely what we should all be doing, but we don't. Until people have the inclination to open thier doors to their immediate needy neighbours, they will be unlikely to open their country.
    I disagree that they are equivalent. Many European countries are quite socialist without necessarily opening their doors to the poor. Europe itself accepted poor countries into its fold without individuals accepting them into their homes.
    I also disagree that the current restrictions are entirely economic. I think racism and nationalism and religion play a very big role. The objections to migrants in Europe includes the fear by some that Europe will become Islamicized.
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    13 Sep '15 08:43
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I also disagree that the current restrictions are entirely economic
    I didn't say this, I said generally, however I agree that other factors come into play. Sexism for example is a barrier to entry in many Islamic countries.
  13. Germany
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    13 Sep '15 10:00
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    I'm not sure what the spiritual aspects of this question are.

    Thanks to the Schengen agreement, I have been able to move across national borders relatively easily. From an ethical standpoint, I don't see why I or anyone else should have the authority to tell other people where they can and cannot work or live as long as they are not harming others.

    The experience we have with the Schengen area suggests that even with few limits, people are not inclined to move long distances and across language and cultural barriers unless they have a good reason for it. Therefore I do not expect any massive immediate effects if immigration barriers were eased.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    13 Sep '15 10:03
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm not sure what the spiritual aspects of this question are.
    Many posters here see themselves as rooting their estimation of what is and is not morally sound behaviour in their spiritual beliefs.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Sep '15 10:09
    Originally posted by FMF
    The free movement of capital across international borders is now pretty much taken for granted in most parts of the world economy. What would the world be like in 20 years from now if the free movement of people across international borders (where they could seek to live and work wherever they wanted) were to be legalized and implemented suddenly tomorrow?

    W ...[text shortened]... al and religious views have upon your answer to this question and your perception of this issue?
    Its a very good idea. The short term effect would not be all nice but over the long haul there are outweighing economic benefits. For it to work the societies would have to be pretty compatible in the sense of religion and culture etc.

    eg, - free movement of people between US and Canada would help both countries. Adding Mexico would pose some problems but not insurmountable ones.

    - opening up say African countries with such a wide span of religions and cultures is likely to lead to unrest in the short term
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