Free Will revisited

Originally posted by @caissad4
If there exists a being (or many beings) who has knowledge of past, present and future then free will is an illusion. Or perhaps it is a delusion.

IF God is all powerful and all knowing, there must be a way to allow free will even though you may ultimately know the outcome, otherwise you are not all powerful.

Naturally, if you can't understand how then it must all be BS, right?

Originally posted by @caissad4
Simply because a being has knowledge of the past, present and future is, in itself, not necessarily an indication of divinity. Watching a rat make his way thru a maze would seldom make one divine.
From our limited perspective, our choices will always appear (to us) to be choices.

Agreed. I'll have to quickly update some terminolgy to attempt a decent reply to this. See what happens...

Originally posted by @whodey
I grew up with universe, I was a good friend of universe, and trust me, you are no Mr. Universe.

Got it?

Not really.Could you break it down for me please? I'd love most sincerely to learn

I find it odd that despite hundreds of years of so called advancements fundamental problems like this have not been better understood than they werein Aristotle's time,despite realativity theory, quantum theory and many other time bending phenomena discovered in the known universe.

Originally posted by @whodey
IF God is all powerful and all knowing, there must be a way to allow free will even though you may ultimately know the outcome, otherwise you are not all powerful.

Naturally, if you can't understand how then it must all be BS, right?

Maybe there exists another way to understand time and the universe? Because our current ways understanding seem counterintuitive if not just plain wasteful not to mention uneccesarily emotional on many levels. I mean why even bother trying to better yourself if you think all will be trashed no matter how good you get...

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
It is a problem to be sure!! However to not have free will would mean that our choices would not really be our own. . To choose to conform our will to the divine is the most constrictive and ego diminishing act one could undertake. However, more than faith, trust in your (higher) self that this the way that has opened the hearts of all who have truly ...[text shortened]... oincidences, The universe has planned for us down to the last detail. How could it be otherwise?

The universe has planned for us down to the last detail.

What leads you to believe this?

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
It is known as the will of the Lord in Christian terms.

Perhaps you misunderstood my question. I asked, what is the will of the universe?

Originally posted by @secondson
Perhaps you misunderstood my question. I asked, [b]what is the will of the universe?[/b]

I know how it is characterized. Would you like me to give my opinion?


As regards to the will of the universe and how it manifests in your life how would I know that?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b] The universe has planned for us down to the last detail.

What leads you to believe this?[/b]

Personal experience. Its as simple as the destiny of all who are righteous and deserving have a perfect way to Co-Create with the rest of the intelligent universe.

The Lord helps those who help themselves and keep the commandments

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I know how it is characterized. Would you like me to give my opinion?


As regards to the will of the universe and how it manifests in your life how would I know that?

I know how you're going to perceive what I'm going to say. You're going to think I'm dissing you in some way, but you would be wrong.

You need to get your feet on the ground and your head out of the clouds.

The universe was created by and for the creator. The universe is material and doesn't have a will. God has a will. I choose to subjugate my will to the will of a living being, not some ethereal materialistic manifestation of matter. I worship and serve a living God and not the universe.

I have a book with the words of God written in it which tells me exactly what His will is for my life and everyone else's life too. It's easy to read and understand as long as one doesn't seek to project onto it one's own interpretation.

Matthew 11-25-30
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Personal experience. Its as simple as the destiny of all who are righteous and deserving have a perfect way to Co-Create with the rest of the intelligent universe.

The Lord helps those who help themselves and keep the commandments

You wrote the following:
<<No accidents. No coincidences, The universe has planned for us down to the last detail. How could it be otherwise?>>

You wrote it in response of what caissad4 wrote:
<<If there exists a being (or many beings) who has knowledge of past, present and future then free will is an illusion. >>

In light of what caissad4 wrote, it reads as if you were asserting that every detail of the future were determined beforehand. Is that what you actually believe?

If that is the case, then caissad4 is correct in asserting that free will is an illusion / delusion. If so, then how do you reconcile this problem?

Of course, there isn't a problem that needs to be reconciled if not every detail of the future were determined beforehand.

Originally posted by @secondson
I know how you're going to perceive what I'm going to say. You're going to think I'm dissing you in some way, but you would be wrong.

You need to get your feet on the ground and your head out of the clouds.

The universe was created by and for the creator. The universe is material and doesn't have a will. God has a will. I choose to subjugate my will ...[text shortened]... in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Well thas not dissing,it just more attempting to conform to a misguided abstraction. I'll repeat this. I dont care what you think about me and where my head is at. You only type what you type to appease yourself, you have no interest in helping me. I know how you're going to percieve what I say but in the absence of any possibility of admitting you are wrong there's no possiblity of any understanding between us impossible.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
You wrote the following:
<<No accidents. No coincidences, The universe has planned for us down to the last detail. How could it be otherwise?>>

You wrote it in response of what caissad4 wrote:
<<If there exists a being (or many beings) who has knowledge of past, present and future then free will is an illusion. >>

In light of what caissad4 wrote, ...[text shortened]... roblem that needs to be reconciled if not every detail of the future were determined beforehand.

Simply put: From a higher vibrational perspective , which is available to us all, Yes. Yes all our lives can be seen. . . .I care not for any sort of clairvoyance or phrophesizing. Others may. > You have come across one of these old chessnuts... most throw these back and say its impossible and therfore must be plain wrong. Your soul will never be content with the authority of others. That is the long and short of it.

There are no problems to be reconciled, our thinking has been reduced into a dualistic mode. Oh well... so what. Everything reconciles itself in good time. Its a head f***,I'm not going to lie, but this is the culmination of a great creative change that No One knows the outcome of fully.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Simply put: From a higher vibrational perspective , which is available to us all, Yes. Yes all our lives can be seen. . . .I care not for any sort of clairvoyance or phrophesizing. Others may. > You have come across one of these old chessnuts... most throw these back and say its impossible and therfore must be plain wrong. Your soul will never be content with the authority of others. That is the long and short of it.

Simply put: From a higher vibrational perspective , which is available to us all, Yes. Yes all our lives can be seen. . . .I care not for any sort of clairvoyance or phrophesizing. Others may.

If you can reasonably reconcile the problem, then do so. If you can't reasonably articulate a way to reconcile the problem, then own the fact that you can't.

You have come across one of these old chessnuts... most throw these back and say its impossible and therfore must be plain wrong. Your soul will never be content with the authority of others.

What leads you to believe that what I believe has anything to do with "the authority of others"? It's a cheap cop out on your part. Truth is my guide.

"Seek first the Kingdom"

"The truth will make you free".