1. Joined
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    11 Jun '13 22:261 edit
    You may or may not of noticed my 'dubious consumer chemicals' thread in the science forums - its just me there...

    I've decided to give Frosty Jacks its very own thread, in the other I'm looking for possible 'killer chemicals' sodium benzoate when used wrong was one. Well Frosty Jacks is a whole hospital ward.

    Here it is
    http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3004/3008044922_3cd03cc173_z.jpg?zz=1

    And a sneak look inside the factory - I thought it was made with apples...
    http://creatureclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/cat-using-toilet.jpg

    It's from what I can gather the most popular cheap booze in Scotland and joking aside it really is a killer. I had a bad patch and stayed in a hostel for a while and I've seen it kill people, about 40-50, but they look like they're 90 odd. I have a lot of sympathy for them, I have a cannabis problem, smoke too much, I don't want to be a hypocrite, it does not seem to hit me quite so hard. A drink is fine but it comes in a big bottle.

    It could be tenants super, that causes more trouble down south. I don't believe in taxing these drinks out of peoples reach, that's wrong, just means rich alcoholics. But I have seen Christianity - Faith turn some around and its helped me too, a lot, even with a drug problem its made me nicer.

    How can religion help with alcohol problems? (and maybe pot too?)

    Any wise words?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Jun '13 22:471 edit
    Originally posted by e4chris
    You may or may not of noticed my 'dubious consumer chemicals' thread in the science forums - its just me there...

    I've decided to give Frosty Jacks its very own thread, in the other I'm looking for possible 'killer chemicals' sodium benzoate when used wrong was one. Well Frosty Jacks is a whole hospital ward.

    Here it is
    http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3 How can religion help with alcohol problems? (and maybe pot too?)

    Any wise words?
    12-step programs.

    It's the only truly reliable method of beating alcohol or drug addiction, in my opinion.

    Fully half the steps have a religious angle, mainly 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 11. (Of course this depends on the actual program as well.)

    There is some anecdotal evidence suggesting atheists may have some criticism or efficacy issues with the program, but never having talked with an atheist who has actually been through the program, I wouldn't really know.
  3. Joined
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    11 Jun '13 23:072 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    12-step programs.

    It's the only truly reliable method of beating alcohol or drug addiction, in my opinion.

    Fully half the steps have a religious angle, mainly 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 11. (Of course this depends on the actual program as well.)

    There is some anecdotal evidence suggesting atheists may have some criticism or efficacy issues with the program, ...[text shortened]... ving talked with an atheist who has actually been through the program, I wouldn't really know.
    There's an AA in my town but no NA . I was thinking about joining an NA. But I sometimes think teetotalism is a bit like whipping your self with a birch twig - some take to it - being Christian helps a lot, but some go like jekyll and hyde, stone sober then very drunk, that's what I've seen.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    11 Jun '13 23:351 edit
    Originally posted by e4chris
    There's an AA in my town but no NA . I was thinking about joining an NA. But I sometimes think teetotalism is a bit like whipping your self with a birch twig - some take to it - being Christian helps a lot, but some go like jekyll and hyde, stone sober then very drunk, that's what I've seen.
    Why don't you try cutting down gradually then. Maybe weaker drinks with less alcohol, smaller drinks, or something like that. Find some substitute. Perhaps some of those non-alcholic beers or mixing them to make it less alcoholic might help. You are just going to have to want to stop very bad and pray to Jesus that He will help you find a way and believe in your heart that He will not forsake you. Also don't forget to meet with other Christians and ask for their support. The least they could do is say a prayer for you. Who knows? It might help so give it a try.

    The Instructor
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    11 Jun '13 23:451 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why don't you try cutting down gradually then. Maybe weaker drinks with less alcohol, smaller drinks, or something like that. Find some substitute. Perhaps some of those non-alcholic beers or mixing them to make it less alcoholic might help. You are just going to have to want to stop very bad and pray to Jesus that He will help you find a way and believe in your heart that He will not forsake you.

    The Instructor
    Do you think telling people with booze problems 'Jesus can save you' can be misleading, giving false hope / an ideal they can't live up to?

    people who go through AA / NA are expected to be stricter with alcohol then someone who never had a problem (and quite a few fail)
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    11 Jun '13 23:542 edits
    Originally posted by e4chris
    Do you think telling people with booze problems 'Jesus can save you' can be misleading, giving false hope / an ideal they can't live up to?

    people who go through AA / NA are expected to be stricter with alcohol then someone who never had a problem (and quite a few fail)
    Why do you think believing in Jesus is false hope? Even if he does not help with your alcohol problem, because He may think you should do it yourself, He can save you from eternal torment. Of course, if you are not going to believe there is no hope, false or otherwise. I am sure that Jesus knows what you are capable of living up to.

    The Instructor
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Jun '13 01:17
    Originally posted by e4chris
    There's an AA in my town but no NA . I was thinking about joining an NA. But I sometimes think teetotalism is a bit like whipping your self with a birch twig - some take to it - being Christian helps a lot, but some go like jekyll and hyde, stone sober then very drunk, that's what I've seen.
    Those people are weak.

    If you're not ready to quit, then own up to the fact instead of wasting everyone else's time. Your sponsor puts in many hours and they take the job of seeing you through the sobriety very seriously.

    By the way, NA is almost exactly like AA, same program, same excellent results, if you take it seriously and want to quit.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Jun '13 01:21
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why don't you try cutting down gradually then. Maybe weaker drinks with less alcohol, smaller drinks, or something like that. Find some substitute. Perhaps some of those non-alcholic beers or mixing them to make it less alcoholic might help. You are just going to have to want to stop very bad and pray to Jesus that He will help you find a way and believ ...[text shortened]... uld do is say a prayer for you. Who knows? It might help so give it a try.

    The Instructor
    The wuss method has a terrible track record. Don't quit unless you are ready to quit and mean it. If you don't really want to quit, then you won't. Period. Don't drag everyone in your support system through your drama about quitting. Either you quit, or you don't. End of story.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Jun '13 01:46
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    The wuss method has a terrible track record. Don't quit unless you are ready to quit and mean it. If you don't really want to quit, then you won't. Period. Don't drag everyone in your support system through your drama about quitting. Either you quit, or you don't. End of story.
    You don't seem very sympathetic to drinking problems.

    The Instructor
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    12 Jun '13 07:37
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why do you think believing in Jesus is false hope? Even if he does not help with your alcohol problem, because He may think you should do it yourself, He can save you from eternal torment. Of course, if you are not going to believe there is no hope, false or otherwise. I am sure that Jesus knows what you are capable of living up to.

    The Instructor
    You get the phrase 'born again Christians' I've met a few, always in a bible study course or something. And full of beans.

    Drug users see this and want what they are taking basically, but I've found I can be a born again Christian but it does not solve my drug problems, its not a magic fix for that at all. Only thing I can say is it gives a Horizon, where a life without drugs looks possible, even quite good.

    But I've seen drug users basically wonder what are these Christians on, and come in and out of the church quite quickly..
  11. Joined
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    12 Jun '13 07:503 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    The wuss method has a terrible track record. Don't quit unless you are ready to quit and mean it. If you don't really want to quit, then you won't. Period. Don't drag everyone in your support system through your drama about quitting. Either you quit, or you don't. End of story.
    Its true trying to quit and getting help, when you don't really want to is a waste of yours and others time.

    But I don't fault people for doing that, I tried to come off pot then decided actually no I don't want to. But it did change my thinking on it. My use gets called a 'problem' now, it is for me if not others. I actively try to find things to do instead, I know a few drunks who are 'under control' too.

    Are you teetotal?
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Jun '13 08:46
    Originally posted by e4chris
    You get the phrase 'born again Christians' I've met a few, always in a bible study course or something. And full of beans.

    Drug users see this and want what they are taking basically, but I've found I can be a born again Christian but it does not solve my drug problems, its not a magic fix for that at all. Only thing I can say is it gives a Horizon, where ...[text shortened]... ally wonder what are these Christians on, and come in and out of the church quite quickly..
    You are wrong to think that becoming a Christian will make everything easy for you. It might even make it harder, because you will be challenged to deal with your shortcomings. You will have many unbelievers pointing them out to you, but not out of the goodness of their heart. I'll just say good luck for now.

    The Instructor
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    12 Jun '13 08:58
    Originally posted by e4chris
    Its true trying to quit and getting help, when you don't really want to is a waste of yours and others time.

    But I don't fault people for doing that, I tried to come off pot then decided actually no I don't want to. But it did change my thinking on it. My use gets called a 'problem' now, it is for me if not others. I actively try to find things to do instead, I know a few drunks who are 'under control' too.

    Are you teetotal?
    suzianne's advice is by far the best. i would also suggest trying to make life changes. look at the underlying issues that cause your problems. very few people are addicts just because of the chemical effects, i think most are because they are unhappy due to things in the past or their current life. resolving life issues (if possible) would help tremendously.
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    12 Jun '13 23:061 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    suzianne's advice is by far the best. i would also suggest trying to make life changes. look at the underlying issues that cause your problems. very few people are addicts just because of the chemical effects, i think most are because they are unhappy due to things in the past or their current life. resolving life issues (if possible) would help tremendously.
    I think theres all this advice thrust upon people with drug problems, from those who don't have them, and it annoys me sometimes - the worst drugs professionals (except nurses) usually haven't used them.

    I have a live and let live attitude with all drugs, including heroin and cocaine. I can't stand either, they are big trouble, but I have no desire to cause more trouble for those folk. I like the way in Holland a personal amount is 'legal' and the police protect to an extent them, they need it sometimes, crime concentrates around them.

    For stoners who are totally hooked, I was, you might be surprised by what a valium / benzo prescription can do, its better frankly. But I slipped back and think weed better, I want to live in a country where that is my prescription, even my job said I was 'self medicating'

    But for booze they give out valium sometimes and it does not seem to take them, nor pot. Why I seriously do recommend a bit of faith / any religion, especially if a person finds themselves on spirits - that's the sign.

    I don't want to rail against frosty jacks in particular , infact it won the thread , how lucky 🙂 ... buy being the most requested, even compared to strongbow, but that's what makes it deadly and Vodka... and the odd stupid stoner.... 🙂

    I don't want this thread to be to miserable but any thoughts- teetotalism, self control...?
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    13 Jun '13 10:04
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I think theres all this advice thrust upon people with drug problems, from those who don't have them, and it annoys me sometimes - the worst drugs professionals (except nurses) usually haven't used them.

    I have a live and let live attitude with all drugs, including heroin and cocaine. I can't stand either, they are big trouble, but I have no desire to cau ...[text shortened]... t want this thread to be to miserable but any thoughts- teetotalism, self control...?
    I wish you all the best in your struggles, but your attitude and approach to Christ is wrong. You seem to view Christianity, churches, Christians as something you can either mould to your specific lifestyle needs or bolt on to fix some do efficiency in your life. Christianity is not a social club or emotional band aid, it is God's methodology for salvation and relationship with him.
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