Functionally Complex

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hmm. OK. Fine. So I suppose you have an explanation of how complex strands of DNA can be formed by chance if DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA?

The only way this manufacturing process could have come about was if it all came into existance simultaniously.

...[text shortened]... r, but I'm sure you should be smart enough to figure out that you have a little problem here.

No, he can tell us how it happened, but you must ask the question
correctly I guess.
Kelly

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hmm. OK. Fine. So I suppose you have an explanation of how complex strands of DNA can be formed by chance if DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA?

The only way this manufacturing process could have come about was if it all came into existance simultaniously.

...[text shortened]... r, but I'm sure you should be smart enough to figure out that you have a little problem here.

It's you that have a problem here. If I tried to explain how fibre-bundles only can "connect" certain ways and any other attempts at "connecting" forms an unstable manifold, would you understand?

Try asking a biologist about biology.

Originally posted by frogstomp
It's you that have a problem here. If I tried to explain how fibre-bundles only can "connect" certain ways and any other attempts at "connecting" forms an unstable manifold, would you understand?

Try asking a biologist about biology.

Don't worry, that's the least of your worries.

All you need to do is explain which one came first, the chicken or the egg?

Hmmmmm? I guess then there is no point in pontificating on how DNA make evolution from simple organisms to more complex ones impossible... :'(

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, he can tell us how it happened, but you must ask the question
correctly I guess.
Kelly

to do that I would need a list of more than how the 4 amino acids bond i need the rules of how the 3 bases bond .I also need the rules of which form stable bonds and which do not. Its not fully a random
process .

Maybe he should ask a biological chemist. I wouldn't be all that interested in the calculations of probabilities of the finished product happening until I knew the probability down at the sub-atomic level, because that's where the mechanisms are.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Don't worry, that's the least of your worries.

All you need to do is explain which one came first, the chicken or the egg?

thats easy ,, The Rooster did.

Originally posted by frogstomp
thats easy ,, The Rooster did.

Sigh...

You still don't get the point. I suppose you never will.

The bottom line is that DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA.

Which means that the only way this manufacturing process could have come about was if it all came into existance simultaniously.

If you still don't understand this then I'm afaid you never will.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Sigh...

You still don't get the point. I suppose you never will.

The bottom line is that DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA.

Which mean ...[text shortened]... you still don't understand this then I'm afaid you never will.

You point is all wrong to begin with.
you reach the conclusion thats in your premise and adjust everything in the middle to fit.
1) you don't know at what point DNA produces proteins
2) you can't know that the proteins have only one way of forming
3) You don't even know if some other protein could have initiated it
4)you treat DNA as a monolith
5) you don't even know if DNA, RNA or PNA was the initiator

what you do know, or in your case should know, is it's all regulated by the laws of chemistry , which in turn are understood best in quantum mechanics.

It that post you made yesterday were 4 OT quotes, 1 Paul quote and 1 Luke quote about something prior to the birth of Christ.
How does that make you a Christian?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Don't worry, that's the least of your worries.

All you need to do is explain which one came first, the chicken or the egg?

Eggs have been around much longer than chickens... but that's probably going to confuse the crap out of a Creationist.

P-

Originally posted by frogstomp
You point is all wrong to begin with.
you reach the conclusion thats in your premise and adjust everything in the middle to fit.
1) you don't know at what point DNA produces proteins
2) you can't know that the prot ...[text shortened]... e birth of Christ.
How does that make you a Christian?

You still don't get it. Sigh.. If only you were a biology teacher....

Math looks at DNA. DNA is not the result of an accident. The mathematical possibilities that all this intertwining of codes and processors could come together by accident—is totally impossible. That is what the experts tell us.

For example, we are told that the information content of the gene in its complexity must be as great as the enzyme it controls. Yet just one medium-sized protein will consist of about 300 amino acids! That protein was made by a DNA gene, which would have to have about 1,000 nucleotides in its chain. Since there are four kinds of nucleotides in a single DNA chain, one with 1,000 links could exist in 4^1000 different forms. —That is 4 followed by a thousand zeros!

Yet all this complexity is required to make the simplest living creature.

Scientists are now able to make protein from chemicals. Evolutionists claim that, therefore, seawater could do it by chance also. But keep this in mind:

The scientists have million-dollar laboratories, and are specially trained. They have to purchase special chemicals made by chemical companies. Yet the proteins they produce are random types. It is impossible to make them in the right pattern or sequence. What they get is in no particular sequence or use. It is also impossible to make only left-handed ones, which are the only kind in animals

Everything had to be in place at once from the beginning. Whether it be a one-celled or a multi-celled creature, all the cellular functions had to be there from the start.

What are the chances of a million-dollar laboratory correctly synthesizing left-hand amino acids for one small protein molecule? It is 1 in 10^210. That is 1 with 210 zeros after it.

To properly understand the immense size of these impossible chances, consider this:

Ten billion years is 1018 seconds. The earth weighs 1026 ounces. The entire universe has a diameter of only 1028 inches. There are 1080 elementary (subatomic) particles in the universe.

Now, please! Compare these numbers with the inconceivably larger numbers needed to accidently produce DNA or protein!

In order to succeed, evolution requires total impossibilities!

See: http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/08dna02.htm#DNA%20Molecule

Originally posted by dj2becker
You still don't get it. Sigh.. If only you were a biology teacher....

Math looks at DNA. DNA is not the result of an accident. The mathematical possibilities that all this intertwining of codes and processors could come together by ac ...[text shortened]... /www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/08dna02.htm#DNA%20Molecule

you're too far along in your delusion. too bad for you.. quoting lies and distortions might be ok for Sophists but not for Christians.
you don't have near enough understanding of the religion you to profess to hold. and you keep resorting to psuedo science to "prove" a religious view that only exist in in the warped minds of pseudo-christians.

"It in no way diminishes the importance of the chemical bond to know that it arises from quantum mechanics, electromagnetism, and the prevalence of temperatures and pressures that allow atoms and molecules to exist. Similarly, it does not diminish the significance of life on Earth to know that it emerged from physics and chemistry and the special historical circumstances permitting the chemical reactions to proceed that produced the ancestral life form and thus initiated biological evolution. Finally, it does not detract from the achievements of the human race, including the triumphs of the human intellect and the glorious works of art that have been produced for tens of thousand of years, to know that our intelligence and self-awareness, greater than those of the other animals, have emerged from the laws of biology plus the specific accidents of hominid evolution.
When we human beings experience awe in the face of the splendors of nature, when we show love for one another, and when we care for our more distant relatives--the other organisms with which we share the biosphere--we are exhibiting aspects of the human condition that are no less wonderful for being emergent phenomena." Murray Gell Mann

so keep you pseudo-science and your pseudo-religion and your entire collection of pseudo-experts and your pseudo-god. At one time you might have been on the right path ,but sadly you've been turned around and are heading in the wrong way or maybe left the path entirely. That shouldn't bother you too much, since you're too far gone to ever see the Light or to be of any help in the Kingdom, too bad though that you're eternity will be spent is a pseudo-heaven with a pseudo-god that hates you.

Originally posted by dj2becker
You still don't get it. Sigh.. If only you were a biology teacher....

Math looks at DNA. DNA is not the result of an accident. The mathematical possibilities that all this intertwining of codes and processors could come together by accident—is totally impossible. That is what the experts tell us.

For example, we are told that the information conten ...[text shortened]... mpossibilities!

See: http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/08dna02.htm#DNA%20Molecule

Lmao

Ten billion years is 1018 seconds. The earth weighs 1026 ounces. The entire universe has a diameter of only 1028 inches. There are 1080 elementary (subatomic) particles in the universe.


you ought to read stuff before you post it.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I suppose you have an explanation for the formation of DNA by chance?

Haven't got a 'chance' explaination. Try thinking about reverse transcription from RNA, you sneering wierdo.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Sigh...

You still don't get the point. I suppose you never will.

The bottom line is that DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA.

Which mean ...[text shortened]... you still don't understand this then I'm afaid you never will.

The bottom line is that DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins

That's not true. Anyway, this is all irrelevant to the thread. Get back on topic please.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hmm. OK. Fine. So I suppose you have an explanation of how complex strands of DNA can be formed by chance if DNA can only be produced with the help of at least 20 proteins, but these proteins can only be produced at the direction of DNA?

The only way this manufacturing process could have come about was if it all came into existance simultaniously.

...[text shortened]... r, but I'm sure you should be smart enough to figure out that you have a little problem here.

Complex strands of DNA were not the starting point. I've given you a clue about what you need to research. Go to it