04 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJay“…The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board…”
Read these words really slowly, this will be the last time I repeat them.
The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board, the mother board makers
do not design a socket to put a CPU in and tell Intel and AMD what size their
next product has to be. If there is a motherboard that is not the right size for a
CPU, it is the wrong motherboard for that ...[text shortened]... rror on the
CPU side of the equation, I can see now why evolution sounds so good to you.
Kelly
What if it didn’t? what if The socket came before the CPU on the mother board?
That is what my question assumes is the hypothetical scenario.
The rest of your post is flawed because it ignores this fact.
But, in addition, your post is also redundant because of the reason I gave in my other post which you rudely just simply ignored. Reminder:
“…even if you are correct, we could simply switch from talking about a flaw in a CPU consisting of it not fitting into the motherboard to talking about a flaw in a motherboard consisting of it not allowing the CPU to fit into it!...”
So I could, for example, simply ask the question:
Is it possible (and that is “possible” and NOT “likely”, it may or may not be “likely&rdquo😉 for somebody to CORRECTLY and rationally spot and identify a flaw in the shape of a socket in a motherboard that prevents the CPU which it was designed for from slotting in and CORRECTLY identify such a flaw without knowing every aspect of the design of the motherboard (such as its power consumption, voltages etc)?
So, what is your answer to THIS question?
04 Sep 10
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonKelly?
Kelly
I remember when I went to tutorials at university when I did my programming courses.
Sometimes I and other student wrote programs that didn’t work as they should so presumably they had bugs.
So we sometimes show each other these programs in the hope that someone could spot the flaws in the programs.
Typically, I make a program that didn ...[text shortened]... onally spotted and identified a flaw in it (the flaw being an invalid literal in this case)?[/b]
I am guessing here you haven’t answered this question because to do so would mean having to confront your own error I your reasoning. I have here an ACTUAL (NOT merely hypothetical! ) example of somebody correctly spotting a flaw without complete knowledge that actually happened! So I repeat this question:
Would you deny that this is a clear example of something (a program in this case) that was designed (by me in this case) and somebody (another student in this case) CORRECTLY and rationally spotted and identified a flaw in it (the flaw being an invalid literal in this case)?
04 Sep 10
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonListen, there is no "what if it didn't" NO ONE designs a socket just so they can
“…The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board…”
What if it didn’t? what if The socket came before the CPU on the mother board?
That is what my question assumes is the hypothetical scenario.
The rest of your post is flawed because it ignores this fact.
But, in addition, your post is also redundant because of the reason I gave in my ot ...[text shortened]... (such as its power consumption, voltages etc)?
So, what is your answer to THIS question?[/b]
then after the fact spend billions of dollars putting together a CPU so it will just
FIT into the socket. So yes, I ingore your point. Its power consumptions and
voltates have nothing to do with its form fitting in the socket.
Kelly
04 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJayOnce again, for somebody who has not designed a CPU in his life, you seem remarkably sure that you can spot what is NOT a flaw.
Listen, there is no "what if it didn't" NO ONE designs a socket just so they can
then after the fact spend billions of dollars putting together a CPU so it will just
FIT into the socket. So yes, I ingore your point. Its power consumptions and
voltates have nothing to do with its form fitting in the socket.
Kelly
04 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadDesigning a CPU isn't done by "somebody" it is done by an army of people using
Once again, for somebody who has not designed a CPU in his life, you seem remarkably sure that you can spot what is NOT a flaw.
a myriad of tools and equipment. Generally sections of each device is handled by
people who specialize in just their little part of the project the work is a huge
undertaking. You and Andrew are welcome to believe you can spot a design flaw
in a CPU by looking at it I’m not going to take this subject beyond this.
Kelly
04 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you are now proving your claim false.
Designing a CPU isn't done by "somebody" it is done by an army of people using
a myriad of tools and equipment. Generally sections of each device is handled by
people who specialize in just their little part of the project the work is a huge
undertaking. You and Andrew are welcome to believe you can spot a design flaw
in a CPU by looking at it I’m not going to take this subject beyond this.
Kelly
You claimed that one must have personally designed a whole CPU before one can correctly spot design flaws. Now you admit that no such people exist. So who spots the design flaws?
You seem to be saying that each little section has specialists that only understand that section and can spot design flaws in that section without ever having knowledge of the complete design.
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJay“…Listen, there is no "what if it didn't"…”
Listen, there is no "what if it didn't" NO ONE designs a socket just so they can
then after the fact spend billions of dollars putting together a CPU so it will just
FIT into the socket. So yes, I ingore your point. Its power consumptions and
voltates have nothing to do with its form fitting in the socket.
Kelly
So you simply refuse to discuss the hypothetical.
No point then in trying to reason with you by referring to the hypothetical so I want waste any more of my time doing that.
Refusing to consider “what if” severely limits your capacity to reason so I will for now on take full account of that self-imposed limits of your power to reason.
“…Its power consumptions and
voltates have nothing to do with its form fitting in the socket….”
So does this mean your answer to my question:
Is it possible (and that is “possible” and NOT “likely”, it may or may not be “likely&rdquo😉 for somebody to CORRECTLY and rationally spot and identify a flaw in the shape of a socket in a motherboard that prevents the CPU which it was designed for from slotting in and CORRECTLY identify such a flaw without knowing every aspect of the design of the motherboard (such as its power consumption, voltages etc)?
Is “yes”?
05 Sep 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonThere is nothing hypothetical assumed in that question so no way of Kelly avoiding it by saying it is never true because it was true because it happened in real life!
Kelly?
I am guessing here you haven’t answered this question because to do so would mean having to confront your own error I your reasoning. I have here an ACTUAL (NOT merely hypothetical! ) example of somebody correctly spotting a flaw without complete knowledge that actually happened! So I repeat this question:
[b]Would you deny that this is ...[text shortened]... onally spotted and identified a flaw in it (the flaw being an invalid literal in this case)?[/b]
And his absence of an answer to this question shows his argument has been debunked.
The question stands unanswered by Kelly:
Would you deny that this is a clear example of something (a program in this case) that was designed (by me in this case) and somebody (another student in this case) CORRECTLY and rationally spotted and identified a flaw in it (the flaw being an invalid literal in this case)?
Case closed.
06 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJay“…The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board…”
Read these words really slowly, this will be the last time I repeat them.
The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board, the mother board makers
do not design a socket to put a CPU in and tell Intel and AMD what size their
next product has to be. If there is a motherboard that is not the right size for a
CPU, it is the wrong motherboard for that ...[text shortened]... rror on the
CPU side of the equation, I can see now why evolution sounds so good to you.
Kelly
What if it didn’t? what if The socket came before the CPU on the mother board?
I found this actual example of not one but several CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard:
http://www.easy-computer-tech.com/cpu.html
“…each CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket,…”
This is not “hypothetical” and this DID happen.
I also found:
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1743/amd_socket_am3_arrives_the_real_phenom_ii_detailed/index3.html
“…THIS CPU is designed to fit into AM2+ boards…” (my emphasis)
http://sites.google.com/site/rooydigital/microchip/introduction
“…While a CPU is designed to fit into a motherboard and …”
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonYou didn't read your link did you? It backed what I have been saying not what
“…The CPU comes before the socket on the mother board…”
What if it didn’t? what if The socket came before the CPU on the mother board?
I found this actual example of not one but several CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard:
http://www.easy-computer-tech.com/cpu.html
“…each CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of ...[text shortened]... rooydigital/microchip/introduction
“…While a CPU is designed to fit into a motherboard and …”
you have.
Kelly
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJayhttp://www.easy-computer-tech.com/cpu.html
You didn't read your link did you? It backed what I have been saying not what
you have.
Kelly
“..As mentioned before, each CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket, and so they are incompatible with any other socket-type board….”
Exactly where on this link does it contradict the assertion “each CPU is DESIGNED to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket” (my emphasis) ?
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by Andrew Hamiltonwow - we're talking about CPUs and Motherboard's...cool. I'm not going to read everything that was written here, it takes too much time. All I'm going to ask is if the CPU was working correctly, would you still say it had a design flaw?
http://www.easy-computer-tech.com/cpu.html
“..As mentioned before, each CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket, and so they are incompatible with any other socket-type board….”
Exactly where on this link does it contradict the assertion “each CPU is DESIGNED to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket” (my emphasis) ?
07 Sep 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeThat depends on what you mean by 'working correctly'. A CPU may do its job, but it may be possible that it could have done it much better if certain changes were made. Whether the absence of those changes could be called a 'flaw' depends on the circumstances.
wow - we're talking about CPUs and Motherboard's...cool. I'm not going to read everything that was written here, it takes too much time. All I'm going to ask is if the CPU was working correctly, would you still say it had a design flaw?
07 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonYes, each CPU is designed, it will match the mother board it suppose to work in.
http://www.easy-computer-tech.com/cpu.html
“..As mentioned before, each CPU is designed to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket, and so they are incompatible with any other socket-type board….”
Exactly where on this link does it contradict the assertion “each CPU is DESIGNED to fit into a specific type of motherboard socket” (my emphasis) ?
It is not telling you which came first, it is telling you they have to match! The
CPU cost billions to put together, the mother board designers wait till they know
the CPU design has been set and then they start to build their mother boards NOT
the other way around. It is no different than hardware comes before software, that
is how things are done.
Kelly