Originally posted by twhitehead
So, you accuse me of lying but won't tell me what my lie was. Funny that, coming from someone who didn't like being called dishonest earlier in the thread. Oh well. 🙁

I'm sorry I asked for a quote from me, my words, and I get this "equivalent"
stuff...seriously, unless you can show me where I said the things you said
I said equivalent is not enough. You are being dishonest here, you've taken
my words I showed you, yours, and you twisted mine. I find nothing about
this funny. I suppose if I did to you what you've done to me you'd be upset
to, nothing like asking for a quote and getting what you said was "equivalent"
to what I'm upset about. You not seeing why I'd be upset about is, is more
than little troubling too.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
As an after thought, as if he forgot to mention it, the writer of Genesis
says, "He made the star also." (Genesis 1:16)

Not in English he didn't. Whose to say what he was talking about? As far as people at the time of writing new, the 'stars' could have been candles.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm sorry I asked for a quote from me, my words, and I get this "equivalent"
stuff...seriously, unless you can show me where I said the things you said
I said equivalent is not enough. You are being dishonest here, you've taken
my words I showed you, yours, and you twisted mine. I find nothing about
this funny. I suppose if I did to you what you've done ...[text shortened]... . You not seeing why I'd be upset about is, is more
than little troubling too.
Kelly

It seems that you now realize I was telling the truth and instead of admitting that you falsely accused me of lying you want to play your old games of dodging round in circles. Sorry, I am not interested. Your being as hypocritical as RJHinds who goes around calling everyone else a liar and mouthpiece of Satan then acting all offended when someone points out his own lies.

If I misrepresented you, then clarify where and how. Your refusal to do so only shows the fundamental problem you have in this thread ie that you are arguing that you don't believe stars exist, but you know that sounds stupid so you wont admit it. Its your argument not mine, you dug the hole, you have to get yourself out of it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It seems that you now realize I was telling the truth and instead of admitting that you falsely accused me of lying you want to play your old games of dodging round in circles. Sorry, I am not interested. Your being as hypocritical as RJHinds who goes around calling everyone else a liar and mouthpiece of Satan then acting all offended when someone points ...[text shortened]... ont admit it. Its your argument not mine, you dug the hole, you have to get yourself out of it.

No, I gave you the quote of the thing you misrepresented my positions on, I'll not bother
with you again. I'm sure we will both sleep better, it is one thing to not grasp what the
other was saying quite another make claims on things that were never said the way you
represented them. I wish you well, but we will never have another exchange on this
board period.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I gave you the quote of the thing you misrepresented my positions on, I'll not bother
with you again. I'm sure we will both sleep better, it is one thing to not grasp what the
other was saying quite another make claims on things that were never said the way you
represented them. I wish you well, but we will never have another exchange on this
board period.
Kelly

So you accuse me of lying, but cant back it up. If I misrepresented you then you could clarify where. Instead you choose to play your usual vagueness games then refuse to speak to me. The least you can do is be honest and withdraw your false accusations.
It is entirely possible that I misunderstood you, but I did not lie. And for that reason I have asked you what I have misunderstood. You refuse to explain. You wish to remain misunderstood because you know that your argument is insupportable.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So you accuse me of lying, but cant back it up. If I misrepresented you then you could clarify where. Instead you choose to play your usual vagueness games then refuse to speak to me. The least you can do is be honest and withdraw your false accusations.
It is entirely possible that I misunderstood you, but I did not lie. And for that reason I have aske ...[text shortened]... explain. You wish to remain misunderstood because you know that your argument is insupportable.

... I did not lie.

Maybe then you should demonstrate why whatever you have said is not a lie. Anyone can claim that they have not lied. That does not prove that what they have said is true.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]... I did not lie.

Maybe then you should demonstrate why whatever you have said is not a lie. Anyone can claim that they have not lied. That does not prove that what they have said is true.[/b]

I tried to demonstrate it, but Kelly was evasive about what exactly he was claiming was a lie. And don't forget, lying is not equivalent to telling untruths. It is perfectly possible that I said something untrue but was unaware of the fact. In that case I cannot prove that I was unaware, but I can certainly show good cause for thinking what I said was true. But Kelly demanded that I prove he said what I claimed he did in the exact same words that I used, but I was not quoting him and never claimed he used those exact words.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I tried to demonstrate it, but Kelly was evasive about what exactly he was claiming was a lie. And don't forget, lying is not equivalent to telling untruths. It is perfectly possible that I said something untrue but was unaware of the fact. In that case I cannot prove that I was unaware, but I can certainly show good cause for thinking what I said was tru ...[text shortened]... same words that I used, but I was not quoting him and never claimed he used those exact words.

And don't forget, lying is not equivalent to telling untruths. It is perfectly possible that I said something untrue but was unaware of the fact.

Telling an untruth IS telling a lie. Period. Whether you were aware of it or not is irrelevant. It is perfectly understandable why no one can have a discussion with you if you fail to see this.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]And don't forget, lying is not equivalent to telling untruths. It is perfectly possible that I said something untrue but was unaware of the fact.

Telling an untruth IS telling a lie. Period. Whether you were aware of it or not is irrelevant. It is perfectly understandable why no one can have a discussion with you if you fail to see this.[/b]

Then you are giving the word “lie” a different meaning and a meaning that contradicts the meaning of that which the overwhelming vast majority of the rest of us mean by that word in everyday English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie
“....a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth ...” (my emphasis)

If I said it is Thursday when it isn't but I believe it is Thursday then I am not lying nor am I telling the truth; I am merely unintentionally saying something that is false.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I tried to demonstrate it, but Kelly was evasive about what exactly he was claiming was a lie. And don't forget, lying is not equivalent to telling untruths. It is perfectly possible that I said something untrue but was unaware of the fact. In that case I cannot prove that I was unaware, but I can certainly show good cause for thinking what I said was tru ...[text shortened]... same words that I used, but I was not quoting him and never claimed he used those exact words.

I feel your pain.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Then you are giving the word “lie” a different meaning and a meaning that contradicts the meaning of that which the overwhelming vast majority of the rest of us mean by that word in everyday English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie
“....a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth ...” (my emphasis) ...[text shortened]... t lying nor am I telling the truth; I am merely unintentionally saying something that is false.

From your own link, which you are clearly not able to read:

1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; A FALSEHOOD.

2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

3.
AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT.


You say: "If I said it is Thursday when it isn't but I believe it is Thursday then I am not lying nor am I telling the truth; I am merely unintentionally saying something that is false."

From your own link your statement above would be a lie on two counts. 1. A FALSEHOOD, and 2. AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT.

Originally posted by dj2becker
From your own link, which you are clearly not able to read:

1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; [b]A FALSEHOOD.

2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

3.
AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT.


You sa above would be a lie on two counts. 1. A FALSEHOOD, and 2. AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT.[/b]

So you cherry-pick those bits (for emphasis) that do not explicitly contradict your claim while ignoring those bits (for emphasis) that contradict your claim.
The fact remains, the vast majority of people mean “a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth” by “lie” in everyday English and that mere fact contradicts your claim.

Insistently; it doesn't make clear that either “A FALSEHOOD” or “AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT” can be unintentional in this context and so I am unsure of the exact intended meaning.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
So you cherry-pick those bits (for emphasis) that do not explicitly contradict your claim while ignoring those bits (for emphasis) that contradict your claim.
The fact remains, the vast majority of people mean “a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth” by “lie” in everyday English and that mere fact contradict ...[text shortened]... ATEMENT” can be unintentional in this context and so I am unsure of the exact intended meaning.

Ha ha ha ha. You can't be serious! So according to your definition (and vast majority of English speakers) [sic] how the heck would you prove that someone was lying?

Ok let me restate my claim so you can clearly show me how your definition contradicts it. My claim: "Any untruth whether spoken intentionally or unintentionally is a lie."

Originally posted by dj2becker
... how the heck would you prove that someone was lying?

It can be difficult, but essentially you have to show that the writer knew what he said was false prior to saying it. Luckily, with forums, there is often enough history to show this to be the case.

Now a question for you: why the heck would you accuse someone of lying when what you really mean is "what you just said is not true"? Surely that would result in every thread on these boards being filled with accusations of lying?
In fact, Andrew, a few posts up should have said "you are lying, you don't know what 'lie' means".

Originally posted by twhitehead
It can be difficult, but essentially you have to show that the writer knew what he said was false prior to saying it. Luckily, with forums, there is often enough history to show this to be the case.

Now a question for you: why the heck would you accuse someone of lying when what you really mean is "what you just said is not true"? Surely that would res ...[text shortened]... Andrew, a few posts up should have said "you are lying, you don't know what 'lie' means".

The link Andrew posted had the following definition under the word LIE. "AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT."

If you don't agree that a FALSE STATEMENT is a LIE, then simply buy every dictionary you can find and cut those words out of it. Maybe then you will feel better.