Given enough time anything can happen, really!

Originally posted by dj2becker
The link Andrew posted had the following definition under the word LIE. "AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT."

If you don't agree that a FALSE STATEMENT is a LIE, then simply buy every dictionary you can find and cut those words out of it. Maybe then you will feel better.

I see that you now realize your error and have chosen to be sarcastic. But this time you know that you are wrong - that makes you a liar even by my definition. See. It can be proven.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I see that you now realize your error and have chosen to be sarcastic. But this time you know that you are wrong - that makes you a liar even by my definition. See. It can be proven.

Yes. You are right. All the dictionaries that define a "lie" as a "falsehood" are wrong. And all the dictionaries that define a "falsehood" as "an untrue statement" are also wrong. Go on and have the last say, since your definitions are always right and the dictionaries are all wrong.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes. You are right. All the dictionaries that define a "lie" as a "falsehood" are wrong. And all the dictionaries that define a "falsehood" as "an untrue statement" are also wrong. Go on and have the last say, since your definitions are always right and the dictionaries are all wrong.

Nonsense. To lie is to compose at least two acts:
1) communication of false information
2) intent to deceive

One could quite easily spread false information with the firm conviction they are telling the truth, example: pretty much every theist who fails to be affiliated with your particular branch of Christianity.

Would you be happy for people to call you a murderer because one component of the definition includes the word "kill"? Reveal Hidden Content

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes. You are right. All the dictionaries that define a "lie" as a "falsehood" are wrong. And all the dictionaries that define a "falsehood" as "an untrue statement" are also wrong. Go on and have the last say, since your definitions are always right and the dictionaries are all wrong.

It matters not what dictionaries say, what matters is what Kelly meant, and what I understood him to mean, and in both cases, I am sure, intent was part of the meaning. I am also sure that you know this. And lastly, I am sure that you are only continuing to argue the point because you are one of those people who just cant admit when they have made a mistake.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The link Andrew posted had the following definition under the word LIE. "AN INACCURATE OR FALSE STATEMENT."

If you don't agree that a FALSE STATEMENT is a LIE, then simply buy every dictionary you can find and cut those words out of it. Maybe then you will feel better.

“...If you don't agree that a FALSE STATEMENT is a LIE, ...”

But the definition didn't make clear that ALL “false statements” are “lies” INCLUDING those that are unintentionally false so that doesn’t contradict our claim that a “false statement” must be intentionally made false for it to be a “lie”.
In addition, your claim was clearly contradicted by the first part of that definition with “a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth” which is rather suggestive that the intended meaning of “an inaccurate or false statement” WAS that it should be always assumed to be intentionally made so to be a lie!
All “lies” are “false statements” but not all “false statements” are “lies”

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ha ha ha ha. You can't be serious! So according to your definition (and vast majority of English speakers) [sic] how the heck would you prove that someone was lying?

Ok let me restate my claim so you can clearly show me how your definition contradicts it. My claim: "Any untruth whether spoken intentionally or unintentionally is a lie."

“...So according to your DEFINITION (and vast majority of English speakers) [sic] HOW the heck would you PROVE that someone was lying? ...” (my emphases)

irrelevant! -the validity of a “DEFINITION” is not measured by “HOW” to “PROVE” something as you imply above.
Definitions only state intended meanings and generally not how to do things (unless what is being defined IS how to do something! )

A definition of a tooth fairy might include saying it has wings -not knowing HOW to PROVE that any particular tooth fairy has wings (probably due to difficulty locating and seeing a tooth fairy 😛 ) doesn't invalidate that part of that definition.


“...Ok let me restate my claim so you can clearly show me how your definition contradicts it. My claim: "Any untruth whether spoken intentionally or unintentionally is a lie." ….”


my definition is the same as the links definition which DOES contradict your defintion above.
Reminder: “a false statement made with DELIBERATE INTENT to deceive; an INTENTIONAL untruth”
the words “ DELIBERATE INTENT” and “INTENTIONAL “ above contradicts the “... unintentionally...” bit of your defintion above.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“...So according to your DEFINITION (and vast majority of English speakers) [sic] HOW the heck would you PROVE that someone was lying? ...” (my emphases)

irrelevant! -the validity of a “DEFINITION” is not measured by “HOW” to “PROVE” something as you imply above.
Definitions only state intended meanings and generally not how to do things (unless ...[text shortened]... nd “INTENTIONAL “ above contradicts the “... unintentionally...” bit of your defintion above.

How about this: "Any untruth whether spoken intentionally or unintentionally is a lie, including this one."😀

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes. You are right. All the dictionaries that define a "lie" as a "falsehood" are wrong. And all the dictionaries that define a "falsehood" as "an untrue statement" are also wrong. Go on and have the last say, since your definitions are always right and the dictionaries are all wrong.

Just because words are given as synonyms or near-synonyms doesn't mean that there isn't a distinction to be made between them. Seems like that's what those guys are trying to say to you.

The following seems to be a reasonable explanation:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/falsehood
—Synonyms
1. Falsehood, fib, lie, untruth refer to something untrue or incorrect.

A falsehood is a statement that distorts or suppresses the truth, in order to deceive: "to tell a falsehood about one's ancestry in order to gain acceptance".

A fib denotes a trivial falsehood, and is often used to characterize that which is not strictly true: "a polite fib".

A lie is a vicious falsehood: "to tell a lie about one's neighbor".

An untruth is an incorrect statement, either intentionally misleading (less harsh, however, than falsehood or lie) or arising from misunderstanding or ignorance: "I'm afraid you are telling an untruth".