1. Joined
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    24 Jul '08 00:56
    Everything was created by God.
    Cancer is a thing.
    Therefore, cancer was created by God.

    The above argument is logically valid, but are the premisses true? And if the premisses are true, why did God create cancer?
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
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    24 Jul '08 02:18
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    Everything was created by God.
    Cancer is a thing.
    Therefore, cancer was created by God.

    The above argument is logically valid, but are the premisses true? And if the premisses are true, why did God create cancer?
    Don't be silly. Once, there was this girl who ate a bad apple. And she shared it with her boyfriend. That's when all the bad stuff started. Think of it like a cancer-apple.
  3. Joined
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    24 Jul '08 02:372 edits
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    Everything was created by God.
    Cancer is a thing.
    Therefore, cancer was created by God.

    The above argument is logically valid, but are the premisses true? And if the premisses are true, why did God create cancer?
    I once heard an arguement that God did not create everything because some things simply do not exist. For example, evil by itself may not exist. To make their position clearer, they asked if darkness existed. Scientifically, darkness does not exist because darkness is really a measurement of a lack of light. Another example is the term cold. Does cold exist? Scientifically, coldness does not exist because what is really being measured is a lack of heat. I thought the first example was good because evil is often referred to as "darkness" Biblically.

    Of course I did not answer the cancer question specifically, but I think you can see where I am going with this. God is life and gives life to his creation. However, if he withdraws himself from his creation such life slowly withdraws itself as well. Cancer is simply a consequence of life being withdrawn and not a creation.
  4. Standard memberNemesio
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    24 Jul '08 03:171 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I once heard an arguement that God did not create everything because some things simply do not exist. For example, evil by itself may not exist. To make their position clearer, they asked if darkness existed. Scientifically, darkness does not exist because darkness is really a measurement of a lack of light. Another example is the term cold. Does cold exist?
    Given: In heaven, there is no evil. Does good exist there?

    Nemesio
  5. Standard memberScriabin
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    24 Jul '08 03:261 edit
    Oh, come on folks. It was a perfectly good question -- my answer is that we cannot determine the truth of the premise because we cannot confirm or deny the existence of God given the meaning with which you invest that word. There are all sorts of logically valid arguments based on propositions the truth of which we simply do not or cannot know.

    I'll grant you the assertion that cancer is a thing -- but I must add that my wife and daughter drive me nuts using the word "thing" while expecting I know which thing they are talking about. There is a huge difference in the way male and female humans use that word, I'm afraid.

    But you are doing nothing very different than Spinoza did by assuming that everything is either a substance or not.

    The replies I saw so far look like folks' brain waves are falling a little short of the beach.
  6. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    24 Jul '08 03:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    I once heard an arguement that God did not create everything because some things simply do not exist. For example, evil by itself may not exist. To make their position clearer, they asked if darkness existed. Scientifically, darkness does not exist because darkness is really a measurement of a lack of light. Another example is the term cold. Does cold ex ...[text shortened]... ws itself as well. Cancer is simply a consequence of life being withdrawn and not a creation.
    I wonder what kind of looks I would get if I went around telling people that murder by sledgehammer doesn't really happen. It's really just a lack of cranial intactness.
  7. Joined
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    24 Jul '08 06:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    I once heard an arguement that God did not create everything because some things simply do not exist. For example, evil by itself may not exist. To make their position clearer, they asked if darkness existed. Scientifically, darkness does not exist because darkness is really a measurement of a lack of light. Another example is the term cold. Does cold ex ...[text shortened]... ws itself as well. Cancer is simply a consequence of life being withdrawn and not a creation.
    so basically god did not create evil, because he created all that is good but there has to be an evil because good is relative to evil.
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    24 Jul '08 12:08
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    so basically god did not create evil, because he created all that is good but there has to be an evil because good is relative to evil.
    If God is love then we must have a choice to love because love demands a choice. Without such a choice, love does not exist. You could say that he allows us not to choose love but did not create the ill effects. We consider them ill effects because we were created in his image which is to love, therefore, when we choose not to love we suffer and others suffer around us.
  9. Joined
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    24 Jul '08 12:36
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Given: In heaven, there is no evil. Does good exist there?

    Nemesio
    Biblically Lucifer gave it a go and well.....you know what happened after that. 😛
  10. Joined
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    24 Jul '08 23:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    ...when we choose not to love we suffer and others suffer around us.
    So how come people who love God often die of cancer?
  11. Joined
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    25 Jul '08 01:12
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    So how come people who love God often die of cancer?
    Man is a fallen race. Only once our bodies die can we shed this sinful nature. Cancer or no cancer, we will all surely die.
  12. Standard memberScriabin
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    25 Jul '08 02:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    If God is love then we must have a choice to love because love demands a choice. Without such a choice, love does not exist. You could say that he allows us not to choose love but did not create the ill effects. We consider them ill effects because we were created in his image which is to love, therefore, when we choose not to love we suffer and others suffer around us.
    Not again. He's trying to make us believe he thinks rationally rather than merely doing what he does: make things up and assert cause and effect from nothing supportable at all.

    With apologies to Mark Twain, I think you need to eat fish, because the phosphorus in it makes brain. I cannot tell you about the amount you need to eat - at least, not with certainty. If this last post is a good specimen of what your brain presently is capable, I should judge that a couple of whale sharks would be all you would want for the present. Not the largest kind, but simply good middling-sized whale sharks, say about 40 footers.
  13. Joined
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    26 Jul '08 22:351 edit
    Originally posted by Scriabin
    Not again. He's trying to make us believe he thinks rationally rather than merely doing what he does: make things up and assert cause and effect from nothing supportable at all.

    With apologies to Mark Twain, I think you need to eat fish, because the phosphorus in it makes brain. I cannot tell you about the amount you need to eat - at least, not with ce ...[text shortened]... esent. Not the largest kind, but simply good middling-sized whale sharks, say about 40 footers.
    A reasoned response to Whodey's argument rather than an ad hominem attack on him would have been a lot more fruitful and respectful, IMO.
  14. Joined
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    27 Jul '08 02:161 edit
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    A reasoned response to Whodey's argument rather than an ad hominem attack on him would have been a lot more fruitful and respectful, IMO.
    Thanks, but what is your answer? Really your question is, why do people die/suffer. It is not so much having to do with caner specifically is it?

    As for my answer, death and suffering are due to sin being introduced into this world. In fact, one need not even sin to die from its ill effects. For example, I don't recall Christ ever sinning yet he not only died, he was tortured for three days beforehand. He is also described as being a man of many sorrows throught his life.
  15. SEMO
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    27 Jul '08 19:21
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Don't be silly. Once, there was this girl who ate a bad apple. And she shared it with her boyfriend. That's when all the bad stuff started. Think of it like a cancer-apple.
    Who said it was an apple?😉
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