god and the devil play chess

Originally posted by Agerg
I think you need to get your facts straight Jaywill...if you look carefully at this evidence from the Hobgobble it clearly shows that you are wrong and deluded

[b]JimBob 29:11 [i]Harry the Hobgoblin is thy First and Last, and apart from his magnificent self there is no other deity. If there be a time unto which thy humans shall praise false gods he tric e is the evidence!...There is no other god other than Harry the Hobgoblin...you made a mistake![/b]

[/i]Yea, but you see it is easy to goof off and write stuff like that.

It is not that easy to explain how the Pharisees could point to the exact place that the Messiah would be born based on a prophecy of Micah 500 years before.

That's history not word play.

Next?

Originally posted by jaywill
[/i]Yea, but you see it is easy to goof off and write stuff like that.

It is not that easy to explain how the Pharisees could point to the exact place that the Messiah would be born based on a prophecy of Micah 500 years before.

That's history not word play.

Next?

Yea, but you see it is easy to goof off and write stuff like that.
What I wrote was a direct excerpt from the Hobgobble...not my own words

But look!...you are Jaywill mentioned in the HobGobble!!! don't you see? the event which he did foresee has come to pass!...more proof that the Hobgobble is truth and the bible is lies


(I'm betting you don't even realise what my point is here!)

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]Maybe I'll attack that tommow.

But first you must realize that even in a chess game one can realize that she is in for a defeat.
"More than certain" is an expression meaning really very very certain.

And your second challenge about foreknowledge and predestination are too tough for me. Do you have an easier one?

So, very very certain is kind of like being very very dead.
OOOOkay.

Originally posted by jaywill
But didn't you read the book of Revelation? There is no question that God is victorious. He cannot be defeated. Satan knows that he is doomed. He has always known that.

We need to remind Satan that Christ is the victor and that the Devil is utterly defeated.

[b]"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their t ...[text shortened]... eated.

You must read aloud the book of Revelation, particularly the last three chapters.

Unless god missed the disclosed check!

Originally posted by jaywill
It is not that easy to explain how the Pharisees could point to the exact place that the Messiah would be born based on a prophecy of Micah 500 years before.

That's history not word play.

Next?

Jesus' birth place is definitely not history. There are no historical records of Jesus' birth.
It is one of two things:
Inspired writing in which case it is obvious that it would be correct.
Made up to suit the perceived prophesy.

Now if these Pharisees new all about Jesus' birth why didn't they become Christian?

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]Yea, but you see it is easy to goof off and write stuff like that.
What I wrote was a direct excerpt from the Hobgobble...not my own words

But look!...you are Jaywill mentioned in the HobGobble!!! don't you see? the event which he did foresee has come to pass!...more proof that the Hobgobble is truth and the bible is lies


(I'm betting you don't even realise what my point is here!)[/b]

Your point is that it is all relative. See, you too can refer to a book with authority. It is all relative. There is in fact no truth and no nontruth. That is your point. A silly and desperate one I think, at least to the degree that you want to take it, it is.

I think this is the desperate plight of modern man. But however cleverly you present your parellels, Jesus of Nazareth remains history not word plays.

And the Micah said that the Messiah from eternity would be born in Bethlehem. When the magi came from the east 2,000 years ago and stopped in Jerusalem to find out where the Savior was to be born, they received the answer. He was to be born in Bethlehem according to Micah's prophecy.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Plenty of other people were also born in Bethlehem. But plenty of other people are not Jesus Christ. And plenty of other people did not impact human history with the words and deeds like Jesus Christ.

So my point is your word play relativism is irrelevant. That such a man came out of Bethlehem seems not to be coincidental to the utterance of God's prophet Micah. Nor are the many other fulfilled prophecies.

So we have in the Bible such a record and resume which renders your word games of relativism irrelevant.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Jesus' birth place is definitely not history. There are no historical records of Jesus' birth.
It is one of two things:
Inspired writing in which case it is obvious that it would be correct.
Made up to suit the perceived prophesy.

Now if these Pharisees new all about Jesus' birth why didn't they become Christian?

Bethlehem is a historical place. You can visit it today.

As to why didn't the Pharisees become Christians? Read the book of Acts. Some of them did.

The others may have been like you. Simply too stubburn to want to acknowledge that the righteous Son of God is rightfully the Lord and Savior.

Pride, Pride, and more Pride.

"Made up to suit the perceived prophesy. "

That is harder to believe than what the New Testament teaches.

How could a baby orchestrate his own birth in a prophetically mentioned city?

Why should I trust your historical study over that of Luke's. The recent discovery (within the 20th century) of the Pavement upon which Jesus stood before Pilate was a vindication of Luke's accurate record.

It is a little late in the day to start charging that the New Testament was all fiction. Most people within the time frame of two thousand years closer and closer to the actual events don't share your wild charge that Jesus was fiction.

You are only emboldened to start such a farce because you think you have the cover of long years having taken place since the First Century CE.

Originally posted by jaywill
[/i]Yea, but you see it is easy to goof off and write stuff like that.

It is not that easy to explain how the Pharisees could point to the exact place that the Messiah would be born based on a prophecy of Micah 500 years before.

That's history not word play.

Next?

There are an incredible number of prophesies that Christ fulfilled in the New Testament that was written about in the Old Testament. I think that those who do not believe in the prophesies would argue that the fulfilled prophesies written about in the New Testament were simply made up to fit the Old Testament prophesies. To directly conceede that these prophesies were indeed fulfilled would basically force one to conceede the power of the Messiahanic prophesies of the Old Testament. This is most uncomfortable for the unbeleiver. Therefore, all Old Testatment prophesies fulfilled in the New Testament could be deemed as being fabricated except one. In Daniel 9:24-27 a time table was given for the Messiah to appear in Israel. If you read the text you will not be able to make any sense of the time table provided, however. Therefore, the unbeliever would simply scoff at the prophesy as being meaningless and pure speculation because it is not easily understood to the average lay person. There is a problem with this reasoning, however. Not everyone is as untrained as we are in deciphering such ancient Hebrew texts. Those who would know the meaning of the text are those who have made a living reading ancient Hebrew writings such as this. It is indeed interesting then that after Christ came Jewish rabbis calculated the the prophesy of Daniel and came to the conclusion that the Messiah should have come some 500 years after the prophesy in Daniel was given. This is a historical fact that was written in the Talmud which are a collection of writings from rabbis commenting on the Torah. The interesting part here is that Christ walked the earth some 500 years after the prophesy of Daniel was given. Did the rabbis have an agenda to make the prophesy fit the time in which Christ came? I would argue no because they then asked the question why the Messiah did not come and why he delayed his coming. Their conclusion was that the sin of Israel was so great that he delayed his coming. No thought of recognizing Christ as Messiah was ever uttered in the Talmud.

Here is a site if you are interested.
http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm

Originally posted by whodey
There are an incredible number of prophesies that Christ fulfilled in the New Testament that was written about in the Old Testament. I think that those who do not believe in the prophesies would argue that the fulfilled prophesies written about in the New Testament were simply made up to fit the Old Testament prophesies. To directly conceede that these prop ...[text shortened]... Talmud.

Here is a site if you are interested.
http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm

That is interesting and thanks.

Okay, we may look at history as God and the Devil playing chess. What some of these poor fellows fail to grasp is the power of the pawn.

Everyone knows that if the pawn reaches it to the last row he (or she depending on what your pawn is) can be converted to a QUEEN. Very Powerful!

Well, in this 21rst century us little beleivers in Jesus are like the pawns running for the last row. If we give ourselves over to the Lord Jesus we can bring Him back. He is "the desire of the nations" (Haggai 2:7)


The little ones hold the key to the whole game. So don't despise the sheer power of you deciding to let Jesus into your heart. Your faith will be converted to the Second Coming of the Son of God - CHECKMATE!

We do have a Bible passage to confirn this understanding of history. Right here:

"Expecting and hastening the coming day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements, burning with intense heat, are to be melted away? But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:12,13)

You see? Not only expecting but 'hastening' the coming new world. Not only expecting but HASTENING along His coming kingdom by coming today under His reign within.

The pawns dear ones, the pawns, the little believers in Christ are SO crucial to human history and the earth's destiny. Do not dispise throwing in your lot with the followers of Christ - virgins going forth to meet the Bridegroom (Matt.25:1-13).

Originally posted by jaywill
Your point is that it is all relative. See, you too can refer to a book with authority. It is all relative. There is in fact no truth and no nontruth. That is your point. A silly and desperate one I think, at least to the degree that you want to take it, it is.

I think this is the desperate plight of modern man. But however cleverly you present your pare ...[text shortened]... in the Bible such a record and resume which renders your word games of relativism irrelevant.

Maybe they were just waiting for some sufficiently charismatic prophet to come out of Bethlehem, and when one did, they named him the Messiah.

It's a bit like predicting which slot a roulette ball will end up in. If you consistently nominate the same slot, the the ball will evenutally end up there, given enough spins.

Or maybe the historical facts about the location of Jesus's birth were amended to "fulfil" prior scripture, and to provide "evidence" of his Davidian roots. I mean, is there any independent evidence that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? Or do we just believe because the Bible says so?

The Bible does contain historical errors. For example, contrary to what Luke and Matthew assert, there was no worldwide Roman census during the reign of Herod the Great. Indeed, it is plausible that the source of the story of Mary and Joseph travelling to Bethlehem is a strategem to "fulfil" the Micah prophecy.

The implication is that anyone who considers the Bible as hard factual evidence is fooling themselves.

Originally posted by jaywill
The total and universal vindication of the Son of God is more than certain.

It's more than certain? 😲

I'm a gonna give 110% of what I can for God, then!

Maybe they were just waiting for some sufficiently charismatic prophet to come out of Bethlehem, and when one did, they named him the Messiah.

Right. A charismatic baby.



It's a bit like predicting which slot a roulette ball will end up in. If you consistently nominate the same slot, the the ball will evenutally end up there, given enough spins.

One down, about 100 to go. Keep debunking.


Or maybe the historical facts about the location of Jesus's birth were amended to "fulfil" prior scripture, and to provide "evidence" of his Davidian roots.

Maybe ... maybe ... maybe ...

What is your life? Dreaming up a succession of conspiracy theories to ward off the love of Jesus?

So sad and such a waste of time.


I mean, is there any independent evidence that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? Or do we just believe because the Bible says so?

You trust someone you love.

I bet you never demanded that your mother and father provide DNA proof that they were your actual parents. I mean you don't really KNOW that they are. Right?

Then again the doctors and the nurses could have forged the birth certificate. Maybe the DNA specialists would be in conspiracy to deceive you also.

I think it comes down to eventually you will trust SOMEONE. I decided that Jesus is worthy of my trust. And with Him the Bible.

But inevitably you are going to have to put your trust somewhere. What do you suppose Christ wanted to gain by tricking you?


The Bible does contain historical errors. For example, contrary to what Luke and Matthew assert, there was no worldwide Roman census during the reign of Herod the Great. Indeed, it is plausible that the source of the story of Mary and Joseph travelling to Bethlehem is a strategem to "fulfil" the Micah prophecy.

Paranoia. Why do you count the One eager to save you in His love as wanting to put one over on you? Christ "I come that they may have life. And that they may have it abundantly." (John 10:10)

Why does it seem impossible to you that something wonderful planned by God was recorded and passed on by others who did not want the good fortune to pass away with them?

Have you ever wanted to pass on good news to others? How did you feel if only deceptive motives and conspiracies were imagined by those who you wanted to inform?

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we became eyewitnesses of that One's majesty." (2 Peter 1:16)

Your whole response is "Yes, Peter. You and the eleven, and the whole bunch of Christians followed cleverly devised myths to put one over on me."


The implication is that anyone who considers the Bible as hard factual evidence is fooling themselves.

Well, I don't look at it that way. I think Jesus Christ is too wonderful to not be true. I don't think people would concoct such a character out of their imaginations even if they were able to.

Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
wouldn't it just be a lot easier if god and the devil had a game of chess to decide who wins once and for all... what a game that would be!

Nobody own's God, so a definintion defined by man as to what is god or the devil is only drawing lines in imaginary places.

Cast thee satan into a pit, while killers stand taking the praise of jesus.