1. Standard memberknightmeister
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    13 Jul '07 15:361 edit
    Do you remember the scene from the Matrix with Keanu Reeves where he is told that he could find out about what is really going on and why he feels that something is not quite right with life . He gets the choice of the blue pill or the red one , and he chooses to find out.

    Christianity is a bit like that. The starting premise is that we have all had the wool pulled over our eyes and been deceived and kept in the dark about God. My experience of becoming a christian was a bit like keanu's . Everything I thought about life got turned inside out and what I thought was real turned out to be a matrix.

    The parallels are quite interesting in that you realise that the enemy didn't want you to find out that you were in the dark and wants to keep you in your pod under his control. Meanwhile God wants to liberate you and wake you up but in a way you (like in the film) you are not going to relish the idea because it means losing yourself and everything you thought you knew. The enemy whispers to us "don't take that pill , it's a deception " thereby deflecting from the greater deception of the matrix itself. I also find the idea that keanu has to make a choice to find out , he has to let go.

    The wierd part is going back into the matrix and trying to talk to people about it. You know that they think the matrix is real but all you see is rows of batteries asleep to who they are in christ.


    By the way - before you say it - I am not "the one"
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    13 Jul '07 15:431 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Do you remember the scene from the Matrix with Keanu Reeves where he is told that he could find out about what is really going on and why he feels that something is not quite right with life . He gets the choice of the blue pill or the red one , and he chooses to find out.

    Christianity is a bit like that. The starting premise is that we have all ha thought about life got turned inside out and what I thought was real turned out to be a matrix.
    As someone raised in a Christian household, I felt the same way once I turned about 14 years old and began to question what I was taught by my church and family which eventually led me to abandon my ties to Christianity altogether.
  3. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    13 Jul '07 15:48
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Do you remember the scene from the Matrix with Keanu Reeves where he is told that he could find out about what is really going on and why he feels that something is not quite right with life . He gets the choice of the blue pill or the red one , and he chooses to find out.

    Christianity is a bit like that. The starting premise is that we have all ha ...[text shortened]... ep to who they are in christ.


    By the way - before you say it - I am not "the one"
    Exactly the same argument could be made, more convincingly, in the other direction. After all, religion gives people power over others, but there is no temptation to power lust with atheists.
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    13 Jul '07 15:493 edits
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Exactly the same argument could be made, more convincingly, in the other direction. After all, religion gives people power over others, but there is no temptation to power lust with atheists.
    I wouldn't say it could be made 'more convincingly'. That's just a subjective bias. Many people are unhappy without a sense of spirituality; religion and faith can be very empowering in a positive sense.
  5. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    13 Jul '07 15:54
    Originally posted by darvlay
    I wouldn't say it could be made 'more convincingly'. That's just a subjective bias. Many people are unhappy without a sense of spirituality; religion and faith can be very empowering in a positive sense.
    Well, ask a detective - they seem to think motives are important when it comes to crime solving.
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    13 Jul '07 15:561 edit
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Well, ask a detective - they seem to think motives are important when it comes to crime solving.
    😕

    Is this some kind of veiled commentary as to why people embrace Christianity? Could you explain yourself further, please?
  7. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    13 Jul '07 16:00
    Originally posted by darvlay
    😕
    Isn't power over others a powerful motive to people? I mean, discovering Jebus usually entails (blind) adherence to someone else's rules, even sometimes against ones conscience (I have a personal friend to whom this kind of thing happened).

    Thus, the argument that any particular sect can try to "keep you in the dark" is valid, but only one side has motive to do so, as far as I can see.
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    13 Jul '07 16:142 edits
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Isn't power over others a powerful motive to people? I mean, discovering Jebus usually entails (blind) adherence to someone else's rules, even sometimes against ones conscience (I have a personal friend to whom this kind of thing happened).

    Thus, the argument that any particular sect can try to "keep you in the dark" is valid, but only one side has motive to do so, as far as I can see.
    I see what you're trying to say and agree that there may be some shady people working in Christianity who think this way. However, I don't believe that this can be applied to all Christians. Many Christians today are very liberal and are not the kind of dupes you are portraying them to be. Many have had their own personal reasons for seeking out spirituality. I also don't believe that all pastors, priests, etc. purposefully attempt to keep people in the dark and that many have good intentions. Most are weird though. 🙂
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    13 Jul '07 18:04
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Isn't power over others a powerful motive to people? I mean, discovering Jebus usually entails (blind) adherence to someone else's rules, even sometimes against ones conscience (I have a personal friend to whom this kind of thing happened).

    Thus, the argument that any particular sect can try to "keep you in the dark" is valid, but only one side has motive to do so, as far as I can see.
    I wouldn’t say Christians are kept in the dark. Some people choose not to seek anything and only take things at face value, there are Christians like this and Atheists.

    As for Christianity being used as a control mechanism… I don’t find that in today’s world and even if it were so, the bible does not teach that, at least not in the way that is being implied.
  10. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    13 Jul '07 18:46
    Originally posted by darvlay
    I see what you're trying to say and agree that there may be some shady people working in Christianity who think this way. However, I don't believe that this can be applied to all Christians. Many Christians today are very liberal and are not the kind of dupes you are portraying them to be. Many have had their own personal reasons for seeking out spiritual ...[text shortened]... pt to keep people in the dark and that many have good intentions. Most are weird though. 🙂
    Absolutely, I am by no means saying the majority, or perhaps even many, have such a power lust. However, the church has historically been an institution which serves to, well, institutionalise people. It's goal is always to recruit more followers, to consolidation its power (which tends to mean politically) and to expand its base, to try and ensure that the population follows its rules, and no-one elses.

    The church continues today to try and repress people's freedoms, such as contraception or gay marriage. Still, it is a step forward from the inquisition.
  11. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    13 Jul '07 18:48
    Originally posted by ryunix
    I wouldn’t say Christians are kept in the dark. Some people choose not to seek anything and only take things at face value, there are Christians like this and Atheists.

    As for Christianity being used as a control mechanism… I don’t find that in today’s world and even if it were so, the bible does not teach that, at least not in the way that is being implied.
    Why would atheists try to keep people in the dark? Normally, we're the group at the forefront trying to promote new knowledge, understanding and rationality of thought.
  12. Standard memberknightmeister
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    13 Jul '07 20:32
    Originally posted by darvlay
    As someone raised in a Christian household, I felt the same way once I turned about 14 years old and began to question what I was taught by my church and family which eventually led me to abandon my ties to Christianity altogether.
    So you must be like that other guy in the matrix film who wants to go back into the matrix and forget that it is a matrix. Doesn't he say "I know this steak is not real , but I don't care " Or maybe you never took the pill in the first place?
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    13 Jul '07 20:34
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Exactly the same argument could be made, more convincingly, in the other direction. After all, religion gives people power over others, but there is no temptation to power lust with atheists.
    It's not religion I'm talking about here. Some religion is just part of the matrix anyway.
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
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    16 Jul '07 07:33
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    It's not religion I'm talking about here. Some religion is just part of the matrix anyway.
    Anyone not seen it here it is....


    YouTube
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    16 Jul '07 08:28
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Do you remember the scene from the Matrix with Keanu Reeves where he is told that he could find out about what is really going on and why he feels that something is not quite right with life . He gets the choice of the blue pill or the red one , and he chooses to find out.
    I took the Pill and got out of the matrix. Now I am athiest.

    But now there are a whole lot more people offering pills of all sorts of colors (you for example) yet each one is claiming that the matrix is a simulation in a greater world. But each one has a different belief as to what that 'greater world' is and none has ever actually got out of the matrix (or at least not provided any hard evidence that they have).
    Now considering that the people I know who took the pill now seem to be seriously deluded you would think that everyone would think twice about taking the pill. One can be sure that over 90% of the pill takers are deluded because their claims as to what the 'real world' is like are so different.

    I prefer to study the world I can observe (the matrix) and see if I can identify any inconsistencies. May pill offerers claim that there are observable effects that are as a result of the matrix only being a simulation but they have never been able to find one of these effects. Others claim that it is an impossibility to find these effects (some sort of rule of the matrix).

    When you start flying like Neo, I might take you seriously, as long as its a case of "There is a legend about Neo from about 2000 years ago but I dont have any concrete evidence" then I think I'll stick with the matrix I know.
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