1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    25 Jan '10 01:383 edits
    "Time moves, and infinity does not. Time begins, ends, and changes. Infinity is static because movement implies time. The cosmos is thought to be finite. We have not reached the end of what exists in time, but there is, in theory, an end. Planets, stars, constellations, and dark matter exist in time and are therefore, finite. Time is countable. The cosmos began at some moment, and at some moment will cease to be. In theory, we could find the end of what we know to exist. The question that rises is, "What is outside time. When the cosmos ends, what is there?" The question is a strange one. In one's mind, one comes to the farthest part of the universe, and we find what? Whatever is out there beyond time and what we know to exist is infinite. Physicists have wondered and suggested maybe outside time there is nothing at all. Not an absence, like a vacuum, but infinite nothing. Time arises out of infinity and will go back to infinity. Infinity is unchangeable, the everlasting now. Change implies time and finitude. Infinity does not change. It cannot because change implies the end of something and the beginning of something else, movement. Beginning and ending happen in time, and time is finite. Life as we know it is finite. It begins at a point in time, and ends at another point.

    There are two possibilities regarding the infinite. Something is there or nothing. If nothing is outside time, then in theory, we could come to the end of the cosmos and stop. There is nothing else. The cosmos will end, but outside the cosmos there is nothing at all, and nothing is infinite. It neither begins nor ends. The other possibility is that there is an infinite something outside time.

    Consciouness exists in time. There are days, months, years, and eons, but they are countable, and they begin at some point and end at some other. Consciousness moves and is aware of itself. Human consciousness begins at some point in development and ends at another. The subconscious knows nothing of time. It has only the never ending now. It does not count and does not move and does not know that it can end. If something exists outside of time, we can calll it God and posit that God is subconscious. God is infinite, eternal, and exists in the never ending now. I have spent years of my life uninterested in the existence of God. I can neither prove that It exists or does not exist. I can find no terms on which I can determine one or the other. However, if the infinity outside the cosmos is not nothing, we can call the infinite subconscious outside of time "God" and then think about what qualities such a being might have.

    Time and finitude rise out of eternity and will sink back into it. If the eternity outside the cosmos is defined as God, then we can maybe say some things about It. It is not conscious, but subconscious, but the conscious mind rises out of the unconscious which rises out of the subconscious. Animals exist whose minds are probably no more than subconscious. They are entirely instinctive and decide nothing. Alligators come to mind. One can move and alligator from one swamp to another, and if its needs are met, it is fine. No alligator needs time adjust to change as far as I know. Many animals probably have nearly no conscious minds, but functioning unconscious minds, for instance cats. They don't think, but they do learn. They are very instinctive animals with some ability to synthesize and act according to new information. However, they do not communicate much in any sort of conscious sense. A cat does know when it's time to eat. They exist in time, but are nearly without consciousness. Conscious animals manipulate the environment. Whales are social.They have communication systems about which we know almost nothing. They could be very complex. And they do manipulate the environment. Whales have been trained to play ball and perfom for rewards. If consciousness rises out of the unconscious which is in time, and the unconscious rises out of the subconscious which exists outside of time, then reasonably an infinite existence outside of time would be subconscious. The infinite subconscious could occasionally exist in time and give rise to unconscious and conscious life in time and therefore begin at a given point and sink back into infinity at another point. A subconscious God could in fact give rise to a mortal Son in time who gives his life in empathy for the agony of mortal beings. One of the most ancient and important questions in human life is the problem of evil. If God is infinite, merciful, and just, how can he account for concentration camps, starvation and the other horrors of human life?

    An infinite being that can rise to consciousness could have given rise for His own reasons to both time and mortality. Such a being would decide nothing about temporal affairs. He would set them in motion and they would progress according to laws of nature. Humans decide for themselves who they are and how we behave.

    Sartrean existentialism states that man defines all of nature including himself. We observe whales to figure out what they are, and we can observe human behavior to understand human nature. In other words, an eternal, non conscious God exists and can rise into time to do things. It will, however, sink back into unchangeable eternity. Humans exist in time and love, suffer, give succor, or abuse each other. God simply permits us to exist. However, God can rise into consciousness and offer empathy for the sufferings of man. We can, if we choose, believe that nothing exists outside the cosmos or that an eternal infinite Being exists outside of time. We have, as far as I know, no information either way other than an apparent human need to believe. Faith is a decision, at least until we reach the end of the cosmos and find out what if anything is out there."

    ladymabelgrex

    http://ladymabelgrex.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-and-time.htmlp
  2. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    25 Jan '10 04:03
    Take a look at Whitehead.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Jan '10 04:55
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    "Time moves, and infinity does not. Time begins, ends, and changes. Infinity is static because movement implies time. The cosmos is thought to be finite. We have not reached the end of what exists in time, but there is, in theory, an end. Planets, stars, constellations, and dark matter exist in time and are therefore, finite. Time is countable. The ...[text shortened]... ."

    ladymabelgrex

    http://ladymabelgrex.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-and-time.htmlp
    How do you know time moves? I know we move, how do you know
    time does?
    Kelly
  4. Hmmm . . .
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    26 Jan '10 05:27
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Take a look at Whitehead.
    God is a verb.
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    26 Jan '10 06:49
    Originally posted by vistesd
    God is a verb.
    The godding god gods.
  6. Territories Unknown
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    26 Jan '10 14:30
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The godding god gods.
    It has been said that no god ever godded like that god.


    Or maybe that was a wood chuck...
  7. Territories Unknown
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    26 Jan '10 14:31
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    "Time moves, and infinity does not. Time begins, ends, and changes. Infinity is static because movement implies time. The cosmos is thought to be finite. We have not reached the end of what exists in time, but there is, in theory, an end. Planets, stars, constellations, and dark matter exist in time and are therefore, finite. Time is countable. The ...[text shortened]... ."

    ladymabelgrex

    http://ladymabelgrex.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-and-time.htmlp
    A good read. Thanks for posting.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
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    26 Jan '10 22:343 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    How do you know time moves? I know we move, how do you know
    time does?
    Kelly
    This isn't my work.

    My interpretation is that she's saying God the Fathern isn't a conscious person in control of himself as the Old Testament would have us believe. He's subconcious, and ideas and images form and dissolve without it's conscious decision...it's like he's on drugs, or has vivid, intense dreams. This can lead to temporary consciousness (e.g. Jesus) but it's not like the Christians, Muslims and Jews make it out to be.

    I've chatted with her a bit and she agreed this was the basic idea.

    Of course I can throw my own sick twist into this:

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", which translates as "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Jan '10 23:37
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    This isn't my work.

    My interpretation is that she's saying God the Fathern isn't a conscious person in control of himself as the Old Testament would have us believe. He's subconcious, and ideas and images form and dissolve without it's conscious decision...it's like he's on drugs, or has vivid, intense dreams. This can lead to temporary conscious ...[text shortened]... which translates as "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."[/i]
    It seemed to be a foundational point with her that was quite beyond me on how she came to that view.
    KJ
  10. Territories Unknown
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    27 Jan '10 03:21
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    This isn't my work.

    My interpretation is that she's saying God the Fathern isn't a conscious person in control of himself as the Old Testament would have us believe. He's subconcious, and ideas and images form and dissolve without it's conscious decision...it's like he's on drugs, or has vivid, intense dreams. This can lead to temporary conscious ...[text shortened]... which translates as "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."[/i]
    I guess I was reading only what I wanted to see. In that case: bad post. Bad, bad post.
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