1. Standard memberCalJust
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    31 Oct '14 09:481 edit
    I am currently reading an autobiography of a fascinating man, whose name most definitely everybody on RHP knows.

    I present here below four short quotes from his book, and I pose the challenge to SF members to hazard a guess as to who wrote this.

    The first quote is after his visit to a place that pilgrim’s visited, which he, most disappointingly, found to be in serious disrepair:

    If anyone doubts the mercy of God, let him have a look at these sacred places. How much hypocrisy and irreligion does the Lord of the Universe suffer to be perpetrated in His holy name? He proclaimed long ago: “Whatever a man sows, that shall he reap.” That law is inexorable and impossible of evasion. There is thus hardly any need for God to interfere. He laid down the law and, as it were, retired. (page 228)


    When his ten-year-old son was seriously ill, he chose to ignore the doctors’ advice, and use his own remedy, and prayer. He writes:

    The doctors could not guarantee recovery. At best they could experiment. The thread of life was in the hands of God. Why not trust it to him and in His Name go on with what I thought was the right treatment. ’My honour is in Thy keeping, oh Lord, in this hour of trial,’ I repeated to myself. (page 232)


    His son recovered. Two more quotes follow:

    It may be said that God has never allowed any of my own plans to stand. He has disposed them in His own way.(page 234)


    and this one I particularly like:

    I think it is wrong to expect certainties in this world, where all else but God that is TRUTH is an uncertainty. All that appears and happens about and around us is uncertain, transient. But there is a Supreme Being hidden therein as a Certainty, and one would be blessed if one could catch a glimpse of that certainty and hitch one’s wagon to it. The quest for Truth is the summum bonum of life. (page 235)


    Who wrote this?
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    31 Oct '14 10:01
    Einstein? Probably not.
  3. Standard memberCalJust
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    31 Oct '14 11:18
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Einstein? Probably not.
    No.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    31 Oct '14 11:33
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I am currently reading an autobiography of a fascinating man, whose name most definitely everybody on RHP knows.

    I present here below four short quotes from his book, and I pose the challenge to SF members to hazard a guess as to who wrote this.

    The first quote is after his visit to a place that pilgrim’s visited, which he, most disappointingly, found ...[text shortened]... t. The quest for Truth is the summum bonum of life. (page 235)[/quote]

    Who wrote this?
    Gandhi?
  5. Standard memberCalJust
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    31 Oct '14 11:59
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Gandhi?
    Full marks, GB.

    You know, of course, that he was a devout Hindu.

    Don't his words have a familiar ring to them; almost as if they were written by any of the Christians on this forum?

    You also know that he wasn't exactly proselitizing for his religion, but he was totally convinced that he had the Truth, not so?
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    31 Oct '14 16:53
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Full marks, GB.

    You know, of course, that he was a devout Hindu.

    Don't his words have a familiar ring to them; almost as if they were written by any of the Christians on this forum?

    You also know that he wasn't exactly proselitizing for his religion, but he was totally convinced that he had the Truth, not so?
    It looks like he was aiming his remarks at a Christian audience otherwise he would not have spoken a saying I think is in the bible, what you sow, you shall reap.

    So the gist of these words is to point out the similarities in Hindu religion and Christianity.
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    31 Oct '14 23:42
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Full marks, GB.

    You know, of course, that he was a devout Hindu.

    Don't his words have a familiar ring to them; almost as if they were written by any of the Christians on this forum?

    You also know that he wasn't exactly proselitizing for his religion, but he was totally convinced that he had the Truth, not so?
    A long time ago someone said to me that we will most definitely be surprised when we get to heaven to see a lot of people we thought would never make it, and a lot not there we thought would.

    God is the judge. But His judgement will be based on the merits of Jesus Christ. Anyone can sound spiritual when referring to God, but that is no guarantee that they know God. God is known by and through His Christ.
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    31 Oct '14 23:44
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It looks like he was aiming his remarks at a Christian audience otherwise he would not have spoken a saying I think is in the bible, what you sow, you shall reap.

    So the gist of these words is to point out the similarities in Hindu religion and Christianity.
    The only similarities are in words. Hinduism and Christianity are worlds apart in every respect.
  9. Standard memberCalJust
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    01 Nov '14 06:02
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It looks like he was aiming his remarks at a Christian audience otherwise he would not have spoken a saying I think is in the bible, what you sow, you shall reap.

    So the gist of these words is to point out the similarities in Hindu religion and Christianity.
    I don't think he aimed at a Christian adience - the rest of the book and the context makes that clear.

    The "Sowing and Reaping" words were followed by a reference to Karma as a universal law.

    I agree that Hinduism and Christianity are worlds apart. My point in this thread is NOT to say that they are similar, but merely to point out that here we have a man that is absolutely convinced of his view of the Truth, and if he was posting on this forum, he could say (in the words of so many here) THIS is the TRUTH, how can you be so blind as to not see it?

    The commonality between Christianity and Hinduism (imho) is mainly in the belief in a Supreme Being and Creator God.

    But the matter I would like to put on the table here is personal comviction of knowing the full truth, which is subjective.
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    01 Nov '14 13:49
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't think he aimed at a Christian adience - the rest of the book and the context makes that clear.

    The "Sowing and Reaping" words were followed by a reference to Karma as a universal law.

    I agree that Hinduism and Christianity are worlds apart. My point in this thread is NOT to say that they are similar, but merely to point out that here we have a ...[text shortened]... to put on the table here is personal comviction of knowing the full truth, which is subjective.
    "But the matter I would like to put on the table here is personal comviction of knowing the full truth, which is subjective."

    Do you mean that to know the full truth one must see it as subjectively understood? That objective observation only imparts partial truth?
  11. Standard memberCalJust
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    01 Nov '14 14:142 edits
    Originally posted by josephw

    Do you mean that to know the full truth one must see it as subjectively understood? That objective observation only imparts partial truth?
    Exactly, and more than that.

    That we finite beings cannot possibly "know the full truth" and necessarily view everything subjectively.

    I am sure you spoke for many Christians here on RHP when you wrote that God is known by and through Jesus Christ. The standard (and Orthodox) reply is to quote: " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me".

    Can you concede that this response is subjective to your point of view and conviction?

    Every Christian here wants others to accept their bona fides, i.e. that others will accept that their pov is the correct one, and that their way will lead to "eternal life" (for lack of a better word).

    My question here is a very simple one:

    Is there any Christian on RHP that would be prepared to extend to others (e.g. Ghandi) that same courtesy?

    To concede that there is a measurable chance that his view of Spiritual Reality may be the right one?

    That it is, in fact, not either/or but also/and?
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    01 Nov '14 22:371 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Exactly, and more than that.

    That we finite beings cannot possibly "know the full truth" and necessarily view everything subjectively.

    I am sure you spoke for many Christians here on RHP when you wrote that God is known by and through Jesus Christ. The standard (and Orthodox) reply is to quote: " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one com ...[text shortened]... may be the right one?

    That it is, in fact, [b]not
    either/or but also/and?[/b]
    "That we finite beings cannot possibly "know the full truth" and necessarily view everything subjectively."

    You're half right. No one knows the full truth. The full truth will be known in eternity. Or maybe not. Maybe we will learn more and more truth throughout eternity. But that doesn't necessarily mean we can't know objectively the truth that has been revealed now.

    "I am sure you spoke for many Christians here on RHP when you wrote that God is known by and through Jesus Christ."

    All Christians know that. I speak only for myself.

    "Can you concede that this response is subjective to your point of view and conviction?"

    My response is subjective after an objective consideration of the truth. When I learned the truth I then responded subjectively. I am "constrained by the love of Christ."

    "Every Christian here wants others to accept their bona fides, i.e. that others will accept that their pov is the correct one, and that their way will lead to "eternal life"..."

    Not so. It is not my point of view that I want others to accept. The correct point of view belongs to God.

    "My question here is a very simple one:

    Is there any Christian on RHP that would be prepared to extend to others (e.g. Ghandi) that same courtesy?

    To concede that there is a measurable chance that his view of Spiritual Reality may be the right one?"


    The only measurable chance anyone has of having life eternal is to accept God's point of view as the "right one".

    I concede to God and His Christ. Why? Because that is what God wants me to do. Because that is "the way" God has made.

    The really big question is how do we know this is true? It certainly isn't true because I say so! Another really big question is how do I know it's true?

    I can tell you this much. It isn't by subjectivity. It's by listening objectively to what God says and believing Him.
  13. Standard memberCalJust
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    02 Nov '14 08:071 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Not so. It is not my point of view that I want others to accept. The correct point of view belongs to God.

    And you say this without noticing the irony....

    I can tell you this much. It isn't by subjectivity. It's by listening objectively to what God says and believing Him.

    Again, you are talking about God in the way that you "know" , what you were taught, what you experienced, etc.

    Everything you said in your post could have been spoken by Ghandi (except of course the mentioning of Jesus).

    I rest my case.
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Nov '14 01:48
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Full marks, GB.

    You know, of course, that he was a devout Hindu.

    Don't his words have a familiar ring to them; almost as if they were written by any of the Christians on this forum?

    You also know that he wasn't exactly proselitizing for his religion, but he was totally convinced that he had the Truth, not so?
    Thanks, CJ. "The quest for Truth is the summum bonum of life." I'd read this line before with interest, so it was the clue.
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    07 Nov '14 09:34
    Originally posted by CalJust

    But the matter I would like to put on the table here is personal comviction of knowing the full truth, which is subjective.
    Any truth (to be True, rather than just a belief) is surely objective.
    It is True for all.
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