1. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 11:423 edits
    False humility is what is preached by some Christian churches. They claim to be humble with their mouth, and their words, but in reality their doctrine is the most arrogant doctrine devised by man. For instance, they alone have eternal life, which not even God can take away from them. All other humans [non-Christians] from the dawn of mankind will burn in torment for all eternity. They believe that nothing like good works or righteousness is necessary. Even their evil deeds will not stop them from entering the Kingdom of God.

    They profess their fake shallow humility by claiming that they..
    ".. can do nothing for God. ..have nothing which to present to God for salvation apart from the Son of God. What He is and His finished work is your only hope.

    And their hypocritical prayers are along these lines:
    "Dear God. Thankyou for Christ. For I have nothing. I can do nothing. Without Christ as my righteousness I have none before You. Thankyou for providing Jesus Christ to me to be righteousness."

    Some of these types of Christians believe Jesus to be a fool. But Jesus was crystal clear.
    Here is the fate of those who do nothing:

    For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
    God gives people the ability to do stuff

    Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
    Good people use these talents. Lazy worthless people dont

    His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    The worthless bum who claimed to be faithful but did nothing, and boasted of his doing nothing, is cast into outer darkness to be tormented for eternity, because that is what he wished on others

    When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
    I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
    I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Naked, and ye clothed me:
    I was sick, and ye visited me:
    I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:14-36 KJV)


    The conclusion from what Jesus said is obvious:
    Those who do good works and live righteously get eternal life
    those who proclaim their empty faith without doing anything, get eternal damnation.
    Jesus said those who have ears to hear let them hear.
    Christian saints who displease Him, their names will be removed from the book of life
  2. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 17:451 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    False humility is what is preached by some Christian churches. They claim to be humble with their mouth, and their words, but in reality their doctrine is the most arrogant doctrine devised by man. For instance, they alone have eternal life, which not even God can take away from them. All other humans [non-Christians] from the dawn of mankind will burn in to ...[text shortened]... hear.
    Christian saints who displease Him, their names will be removed from the book of life
    [/b]
    When Jesus started his ministry he said, "Repent and believe in the gospel". What do you think that means? And what do you view to be 'the gospel'?
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    12 Jun '17 18:133 edits
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    When Jesus started his ministry he said, "Repent and believe in the gospel". What do you think that means? And what do you view to be 'the gospel'?
    The gospel that Jesus mentioned in Mark 1 are the words that He spoke while He walked the Earth.

    Part of His gospel are contained in the words of Jesus cited in the OP which you seem to have side-stepped.

    Matthew 13
    41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

    Matthew 16
    24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.


    What do you think Jesus had in mind when he said, "repent and believe in the gospel"?
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 18:16
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    When Jesus started his ministry he said, "Repent and believe in the gospel". What do you think that means? And what do you view to be 'the gospel'?
    The word gospel has more than one meaning. First, the bible never says believe in the gospel. It says believe the gospel. Just a minor point.

    The gospel of Christ represents all the teachings of Christ. So if you take that meaning it means to believe what Jesus preached.

    The gospel also means good news. That good news is the good tidings of the coming of a messiah and all the good news that comes with it... ie his saving death and resurrection and Kingdom to come.

    Is there something in the opening post that contradicts with the gospel?
  5. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 19:116 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    The gospel that Jesus mentioned in Mark 1 are the words that He spoke while He walked the Earth.

    Part of His gospel are contained in the words of Jesus cited in the OP which you seem to have side-stepped.

    Matthew 13
    41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and [b]they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit la ...[text shortened]... .



    What do you think Jesus had in mind when he said, "repent and believe in the gospel"?[/b]
    The gospel literally means 'the good news'. Which part of Matthew 13 for example would you describe as 'good news'?

    I think in order to understand the 'good news' we need to first understand the 'bad news'. The bad news is that all are guilty of sin and condemned by God. But this is countered by the gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. God, because of His love for the world, has made a way for man to be forgiven of their sins (John 3:16). He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to take the sins of mankind on Himself through death on a cross (1 Peter 2:24). In placing our sin on Christ, God ensured that all who will believe in the name of Jesus will be forgiven (Acts 10:43). Jesus’ resurrection guarantees the justification of all who believe (Romans 4:25).

    https://www.gotquestions.org/gospel-of-Jesus-Christ.html

    But I think that is not all there is to it. We need to repent from our sins and by faith have the resurrected Christ live in us and we ourselves should be transformed into his image daily. He then can do good works through us. The beauty of the gospel is when we die to ourselves (the flesh) and Christ (the spirit) lives in us.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 19:221 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    The gospel literally means 'the good news'. Which part of Matthew 13 for example would you describe as 'good news'?

    I think in order to understand the 'good news' we need to first understand the 'bad news'. The bad news is that all are guilty of sin and condemned by God. But this is countered by the gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. God, because of ...[text shortened]... d we ourselves should be transformed into his image daily. He then can do good works through us.
    Before Jesus was resurrected, how did those who heard His gospel and His preaching, follow your doctrine .... by faith have the resurrected Christ[??] live in us and we ourselves should be transformed into his image daily. He then can do good works through us

    You will be hardpressed to find anywhere Jesus said that. God can do good works through anybody, otherwise the God you believe in has limitations.
  7. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 19:271 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Before Jesus was resurrected, how did those who heard His gospel and His preaching, follow your doctrine .... by faith have the resurrected Christ live in us and we ourselves should be transformed into his image daily. He then can do good works through us

    You will be hardpressed to find anywhere Jesus said that. God can do good works through anybody, otherwise the God you believe in has limitations.
    1. If you think we can understand the 'gospel' using only the words of Christ, what do you think is the point of the rest of the Bible?

    2. If it was already possible for people to earn their salvation by doing good works, then what was the point of Jesus's death on the cross?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 19:43
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    If you think we can understand the 'gospel' using only the words of Christ, what do you think is the point of the rest of the Bible?
    All parts of the Bible are correct. Some come to God through the Law of Moses, some through Christ, some through the teachings of Paul and the Apostles, some by following the law written in their hearts and by living righteously thereby. God will judge all people by different yardsticks. All who please God, will enter the Kingdom of God through Christ, whether or not they actually profess faith of any kind.

    The above is in the Bible. There was a time when there was no Bible and no Paul. It appears to me that you think all those people prior to Christ are doomed. If you think that then you are wrong. Its not just Christians who can enter the Kingdom of God.

    In any event I would not be pursuing this discussion with you any further. This thread is about the elevating of faith to the point where one considers it to be the only requirement to enter the Kingdom of God. Christians proclaim their faith and then say that NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED. This thread addresses that false doctrine. According to Jesus Christ and Paul and all the Apostles, much more is REQUIRED AND ESSENTIAL FOR ETERNAL LIFE. If you have points to raise along these lines then I would be happy to discuss them with you.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 19:44
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    . If it was already possible for people to earn their salvation by doing good works, then what was the point of Jesus's death on the cross?
    I answered this question already, in fact more than once, several months ago.
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    12 Jun '17 19:513 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    The gospel that Jesus mentioned in Mark 1 are the words that He spoke while He walked the Earth.


    Good. Then after His resurrection and while He still walked on earth, He explained many things about the gospel and the kingdom of God.

    [The apostles] " To whom He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many irrefutable proofs; appearing to them through a period of forty days and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God. " (Acts 1:3)


    Tell us more about what Jesus spoke while He walked on the earth after He resurrected from the dead.
  11. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 20:031 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I answered this question already, in fact more than once, several months ago.
    So to be clear, would you agree that people could still have been saved even if Jesus never died on the cross and that his death on the cross was not for the purpose of saving people?
  12. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 20:051 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    All parts of the Bible are correct. Some come to God through the Law of Moses, some through Christ, some through the teachings of Paul and the Apostles, some by following the law written in their hearts and by living righteously thereby. God will judge all people by different yardsticks. All who please God, will enter the Kingdom of God through Christ, whet ...[text shortened]... . If you have points to raise along these lines then I would be happy to discuss them with you.
    All who please God, will enter the Kingdom of God through Christ, whether or not they actually profess faith of any kind.

    Why then does the Bible say "without faith it is impossible to please God?" Hebrews 11:6
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 20:06
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    So to be clear, would you agree that people could still have been saved even if Jesus did never died on the cross and that his death on the cross was not for the purpose of saving people?
    Start another thread with that and I would be happy to discuss it. Although I know we already did. It appears your abuse as a child has damaged some of your brain cells ... no problem. I will discuss it with you. You look like you need the repetition judging from your posts.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 20:16
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b]All who please God, will enter the Kingdom of God through Christ, whether or not they actually profess faith of any kind.

    Why then does the Bible say "without faith it is impossible to please God?" Hebrews 11:6[/b]
    Professing faith does not please God. Some Christians PROFESS FAITH, but they do not live righteously, This is dead faith and this does not please God.

    God is pleased with FAITH, which is a living faith, because this kind of faith means that you believe in something and that something causes you to do GOOD WORKS and makes you LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY

    There are people who live righteously and do good works, This is called implied faith and it is what James speaks of here: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (James 2:18 KJV)
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    12 Jun '17 20:19
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b]All who please God, will enter the Kingdom of God through Christ, whether or not they actually profess faith of any kind.

    Why then does the Bible say "without faith it is impossible to please God?" Hebrews 11:6[/b]
    "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure..."

    Isaiah 44:28

    (The bible is contradictory on the matter).
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