Originally posted by Zahlanzi
ancient tribes preserved their culture only through writing? is that what you are saying?

Culture was and still is, passed on orally. Books of the Bible? Not so much.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Culture was and still is, passed on orally. Books of the Bible? Not so much.

i see another pointless off topic discussion coming up. i will end it here.

What was seen in the conquest of Canaan was not genocide. We could call it "Sinocide".

This proves that is was not genocide against an ethnic race or culture that God was after. It was the elimination of the sinning done by WHOEVER practiced it.

The objects of the driving out, the cutting off, and the obliteration commands were debauched people that God had allowed to degrade for about 400 years.

God said that because of the sins the good land would vomit out the people.

" The land has become defiled, so I am punishing it for its sin, and the land will vomit out its inhabitants. " (Leviticus 18:25)

Compare to the warning to Israel:

"For men of the land who were before you have done all those abominations and the land has become defiled.

That the land does not vomit you out when you defile it, as it vomited out the nation which was before you." (Lev. 18:27,28)

This cannot be counted then as a ethnic cleansing to eradicate simply the non-Israelite nations for its own sake.

"For all who do any of these abominations, those persons shall be cut off from among their people." (v.29)

The commands were directed towards sinful Israelites as well.
God ordered not just the death of Canaanites but on occasion sinful Israelites in the thousands. See Exodus 32:27 and Numbers 25:1-9)

The concern of God was therefore with the sinning and not the ethnicity. As we read on the Old Testament we see the prophets agreeing with God, being in dismay and anger at the disobedience of Israel in the good land. They were threatened with divine judgment more often that the pagan nations were.

In the dispersion from the good land, other peoples were brought in to inhabit the land. And it was commanded by the imperialist nation that the God of the land must have His priests there to instruct the people, for the well being of the inhabitants.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
I do not remember of any instance in the bible where god appeared in person before someone and asked him or her to kill in his name.

It was always an angel, a prophet, a priest.
During the invasion of canaan it was always through whatever levite was in charge that we hear of "go there, kill everyone, loot and pillage and rape"

and we hear of these ...[text shortened]... e evil and God wants them dead, but cannot kill them himself.

it sounds stupid because it is.

It worked because people wanted to believe it.

It was simply back-filled moral justification for actions that otherwise would have seemed abhorrent. But you don't get the good land and the power to rule it otherwise.

Originally posted by sonship
What was seen in the conquest of Canaan was not genocide. We could call it [b] "Sinocide".

This proves that is was not genocide against an ethnic race or culture that God was after. It was the elimination of the sinning done by WHOEVER practiced it.

The objects of the driving out, the cutting off, and the obliteration commands ...[text shortened]... land must have His priests there to instruct the people, for the well being of the inhabitants.[/b]

"Sinocide"
funny

"It was the elimination of the sinning done by WHOEVER practiced it."
everybody sinned. the israelites sinned to. they were not destroyed

later on jesus says that everyone can be saved and "judge not" and repent and ye shall be forgiven.


" This cannot be counted then as a ethnic cleansing to eradicate simply the non-Israelite nations for its own sake. "
i don't care what flavor of genocide it is. you can argue on specifics. i am stuck on the "kill children" thing and how repulsive it is. i am not even going to mention how retarded it is to believe a society can be 100% evil and deserving of utter destruction.

nazi germany engaged in heinous acts but only an idiot would say that all germans of that time were evil. and yet, surprise surprise, god didn't tell the americans to "kill every man woman and child"


" The concern of God was therefore with the sinning and not the ethnicity"
yet jesus never once said that sinners deserve to die. in fact he keeps going on how everyone can be saved.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Sinocide"
funny

"It was the elimination of the sinning done by WHOEVER practiced it."
everybody sinned. the israelites sinned to. they were not destroyed

later on jesus says that everyone can be saved and "judge not" and repent and ye shall be forgiven.


" This cannot be counted then as a ethnic cleansing to eradicate simply the non-Israelite ...[text shortened]... ever once said that sinners deserve to die. in fact he keeps going on how everyone can be saved.

"Sinocide"
funny /b]
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Not original. I don't know who coined that. I read it in a book by Frank Turek.

[b]
me: "It was the elimination of the sinning done by WHOEVER practiced it."

everybody sinned. the israelites sinned to. they were not destroyed
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I think if you read these books carefully you will see that some were driven away from their sinning centers. And some remain the hardest of the hard to be combative.

I may have already told you that I believe the reason God had the "army of Jehovah" circle Jericho once for seven days and then seven times on the seventh day, was perhaps giving the repentant inhabitants a chance to escape.

So called destroyed completely peoples show up latter in the Bible. So it is hard to imagine that they literally were totally destroyed.

Then there is the arguable case that the speaking style of Joshua represents the military bravado speak of soldiers in that time - IE. " We left nothing breathing." Other military exploits in the ancient Near East recorded this kind of bravado speak. If so that might indicate the the book of Joshua was really written by a military man.

At any rate, I dare not admit that some children seem to have been killed. But I also notice that dispersion, driving out, scattering was also commanded. I think that in cases where the hardest of the hard, the most stubborn of the stubborn and the most unrepentant were slaughtered.


later on jesus says that everyone can be saved and "judge not" and repent and ye shall be forgiven.
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You should not understand this passage to mean that one who rejects to believe in Christ will be saved because he is not judgmental. That is a misunderstanding of the warnings that Christians will be judged as they themselves judged.

An atheist will not be eternally redeemed because he would not believe in Christ but did practice not judging others.

me: " This cannot be counted then as a ethnic cleansing to eradicate simply the non-Israelite nations for its own sake. "

i don't care what flavor of genocide it is.
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It is not a "flavor" of genocide. That was my point.


you can argue on specifics. i am stuck on the "kill children" thing and how repulsive it is.
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It is a hard thing to read.
Sometimes the Bible will have hard things to read.

i am not even going to mention how retarded it is to believe a society can be 100% evil and deserving of utter destruction.
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If it was 90% important it may still serve as an example.
In the first book Genesis in chapter 18, Abraham presses God again and again to make sure He will be just in judging a society (Gen. 18:23-33).

I agree with Abraham's faith - 'Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly? "(v.25)


nazi germany engaged in heinous acts but only an idiot would say that all germans of that time were evil. and yet, surprise surprise, god didn't tell the americans to "kill every man woman and child"
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These were different circumstances. And no nation going against Germany was the one unique theocratic nation receiving such direct commands by revelation from God in the same way.

Some say it didn't happen.
Some say it happened and God was inferior to us in morality.

I don't believe either makes good sense.
And Jesus was the most qualified to judge that it was wrong.
He never did but referred to His Father, the God of israel as Righteous.

so I think we need to catch up with God on this hard case not the other way around.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

It was a pun. A play on a sound. Don't take it too seriously.