1. Standard membersonshiponline
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    17 Jun '13 12:35
    Something mysterious about God's nature is seen in the Old Testament. God is both the Sender and the One Sent in Zechariah -

    Zechariah 2:8-11

    "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)

    For I am waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)

    Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)

    And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)
  2. Standard membersonshiponline
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    17 Jun '13 12:40

    Zechariah 2:8-11

    "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)

    For I am waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)

    Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)

    And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)


    In verse 8 the speaker is Jehovah of hosts - " ... thus says Jehovah of hosts ...". But who is the one sent to deal with the plundering nations in this sentence - "He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you" ? He is the one waving His hand and declaring that Jehovah of hosts has sent Him -

    "For thus says Jehovah of hosts ... For I am waving My hand over them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me." Jehovah of hosts is both the speaker and the one who will dwell in the midst of His people -

    " ... for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah." (v.10)

    Many nations will join themselves to Jehovah God for He says they will be His people - "And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst ..."

    When they join themselves to Jehovah who will come to dwell in the midst of His people, it shall be known that Jehovah of hosts has sent this One -

    "And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me unto you."

    This mysterious passage reveals that Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender and the One Sent. This is a widow into the triune nature of God. And we can compare it to the New Testament utterance that the Son and the Father will come to dwell in the lover of Jesus:

    "Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
  3. Standard membersonshiponline
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    17 Jun '13 12:50
    Notice again verse 8: "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye." (Zech. 2:8)

    Both "He" and "Me" refer to Jehovah of hosts. Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender (verses 9,11) and the sent One. This like John's Gospel, is a revelation of the Triune God.

    God dispatching God is here.
    God dispensing God is here.
  4. Standard membersonshiponline
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    18 Jun '13 07:47
    Zechariah 12:10--And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and supplications: and they shall look upon ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall MOURN FOR HIM, as one mourneth for his only Son, and shall be in bitterness for HIM, as one is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Again we see God sends God in Zechariah.

    This passage is helpful for it shows that in God sending God, God picks up something - humanity. He who had divinity only sends the Divine God Who in incarnation picks up humanity. Thus He is able to be pierced in crucifixion as the sacrificed Son. The Word who was God and with God becomes flesh (John 1:1,14)

    As God dispenses God, God is compounded with human nature to accomplish redemption by being pieced on Calvary's cross.

    It is sealed that the sent One is distinct but not separated from the Sending one. For the Angel [messenger] of Jehovah is virtually Jehovah Himself -

    "In that day Jehovah will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he who is feeble among them in the day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of Jehovah before them." (Zech 12:8)

    " ... like God, like the Angel of Jehovah ..."

    God and the Angel or Messenger of Jehovah are used interchangeably.

    This is like God, like the One sent as Messenger by God. Again is revealed - God sending God in His operation. Israel pierced Him (the incarnated God - the Son Jesus). But a glorious day comes when they recognize and mourn for this firstborn Son - God become a man.
  5. Standard membercaissad4
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    19 Jun '13 01:36
    Originally posted by sonship
    Notice again verse 8: "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye." (Zech. 2:8)
    Both "He" and "Me" refer to Jehovah of hosts. Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender (verses 9,11) and the sent One. This like John's Gospel, is a revelation of the Triune God.
    God dispatching God is here.
    God dispensing God is here.
    Or indication of a schizophrenic. Your god is, after all, in our image.🙄🙄
  6. Joined
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    19 Jun '13 04:40
    Originally posted by sonship
    Something mysterious about God's nature is seen in the Old Testament. God is both the Sender and the One Sent in Zechariah -

    Zechariah 2:8-11

    [b] "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)

    For I am waving My hand over them, and they ...[text shortened]... ell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)
    [/b]
    This is not saying anything about God sending himself. Who is the one talking here? Who is the "Me" in this scripture?
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    19 Jun '13 08:223 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] Zechariah 12:10--And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and supplications: and they shall look upon ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall MOURN FOR HIM, as one mourneth for his only Son, and shall be in bitterness for HIM, as one is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Again we see G glorious day comes when they recognize and mourn for this firstborn Son - God become a man.[/b]
    We know that the first part of the Sacred Name “Yah” meaning "I AM" was changed to “Je” after the “J” was developed and the “a” was replaced with “e” for some reason. The true name of God is shown in the phrase "HalleluYah" meaning "Praise the LORD."

    The suffix “hovah” is No. 1943 in Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and has the meaning of “ruin: mischief.” It is another form of No. 1942, havvah, which is translated “calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous, naughtiness, naughty, perverse thing, very wickedness."

    The distorted name of "Jehovah" seems to carry the meaning of the One Who brings ruin, iniquity, mischief, naughtiness, perverse things, and wickedness.” This corrupted name better fits Satan, the one that comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

    Therefore, I believe we should not use this name to refer to God.

    The Instructor
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    19 Jun '13 08:52
    "17. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [a]only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    "Footnotes: [a.] John 3:18 Or unique, only one of His kind"
  9. Standard membersonshiponline
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    19 Jun '13 12:40
    Originally posted by galveston75
    This is not saying anything about God sending himself. Who is the one talking here? Who is the "Me" in this scripture?
    It appears that both the Sender and the One Sent is Jehovah God.
    Let’s see if someone else besides God makes sense in this context.

    ”For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you … For I am waving My hand over them … and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me.” (See Zech. 2:8,9)

    Could it be that Zechariah the prophet is saying that he will wave his hand over the nations? The one waving the hand over the nations is the one sent against the nations. The prophet is speaking God’s words. But the prophet does not possess the power to discipline the plundering nations with a wave of his hand. God the Almighty rather, being against the enemies of Israel, has the powerful waving hand which should be feared.

    He who is sent against plundering nations and waving that all powerful hand, is best understood as God. When He waves in punishment – ” … you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me.” (v.9).

    This should be understood not as God sending the prophet to wave his hand against the nations. Rather the Speaker who says “… thus says Jehovah … He has sent Me …”. Jehovah of hosts the Sender sends He who declares ” For I am waving My hand over them … Jehovah of hosts has sent Me.”

    Now who is the one coming to dwell in the midst of Zion? Is it Zechariah the prophet? Well the one who declares this coming is Jehovah God – ”O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, DECLARES JEHOVAH” (v.10) This one who comes to dwell in the midst is Jehovah. Yet in verse 11 they will know that Jehovah has sent this one who is dwelling in the midst – ” … and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you.” (v.11b)

    Jehovah declares that He will dwell in the midst in verse 10 … ”I will dwell in the midst, declares Jehovah”
    Jehovah predicts in verse 11 that the result will be that they will know Jehovah of hosts has sent this one – ”I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you.”

    In light of the whole revelation of both Old and New Testament, I maintain that the Triune God, the Father – Son Holy - Spirit, the Three-One Eternal I AM of the Divine Person is the explanation of Zechariah’s mysterious passage.
  10. Standard membersonshiponline
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    19 Jun '13 12:481 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    We know that the first part of the Sacred Name “Yah” meaning "I AM" was changed to “Je” after the “J” was developed and the “a” was replaced with “e” for some reason. The true name of God is shown in the phrase "HalleluYah" meaning "Praise the LORD."

    The suffix “hovah” is No. 1943 in Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and has the meaning of “ruin: mischief.

    Therefore, I believe we should not use this name to refer to God.

    The Instructor
    RJHinds, I do not insist on the usage of Jehovah. But if it is good enough for the 1901 American Standard Bible and J. N. Darby's New Translation I think it is good enough to use.

    If someone feels not to use Jehovah that is fine with me.

    I have also heard it argued that JESUS has the name ZEUS in it, ie. JE - ZEUS. So they argue in a similar way that we should not use the name Jesus but only Yeshua.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    19 Jun '13 21:591 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    RJHinds, I do not [b]insist on the usage of Jehovah. But if it is good enough for the 1901 American Standard Bible and J. N. Darby's New Translation I think it is good enough to use.

    If someone feels not to use Jehovah that is fine with me.

    I have also heard it argued that JESUS has the name ZEUS in it, ie. JE - ZEUS. So they argue in a similar way that we should not use the name Jesus but only Yeshua.[/b]
    I really prefer the name Yahshua, but many people are so used to Jesus that they would not know who I am talking about unless I also use the name Jesus.

    Perhaps you are right in using that name when talking to the Jehovah's Witnesses, if that is your aim.

    The Instructor
  12. Standard membersonshiponline
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    20 Jun '13 05:292 edits
    My theme here is God sending God. The phrase "the Angel of Jehovah" is enough to indicate the sending BY God. But then in some places this sent Angel is interchangeably viewed as God Himself.

    Consider Joshua standing before the Angel of Jehovah in chapter 3:

    "I hereby make your iniquity pass from you and clothe you with stately robes." (Zech. 3:4).

    Who is the speaker who has caused iniquity to pass from Joshua ? It is Jehovah God -

    "And Jehovah said to Satan, Jehovah rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, Jehovah, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and was standing before the Angel." (v.3)

    The guilty priest is standing before the One sent by Jehovah - "Then He showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah and Satan standing at his right hand to be his advasary.

    And JEHOVAH SAID TO SATAN ..." (vs.1,2a)


    God sends God. And God as "the Angel of Jehovah" has the authority to justify the sinner Joshua. Who can forgive sin forever except God Himself ?

    "I hereby make your iniquity pass from you and clothe you with stately robes." (Zech. 3:4).

    The perfection of Christ as the Angel of Jehovah was EXTENDED to Joshua by the removal of the filthy garments (his iniquities) from him. This made his iniquities PASS FROM HIM.

    Joshua was also clothed in stately robes; with farments befitting his office and status as high priest. These garments signify the expression of Christ in His divine glory and His human beauty.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    20 Jun '13 08:232 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    My theme here is God sending God. The phrase [b] "the Angel of Jehovah" is enough to indicate the sending BY God. But then in some places this sent Angel is interchangeably viewed as God Himself.

    Consider Joshua standing before the Angel of Jehovah in chapter 3:

    "I hereby make your iniquity pass from you and clothe you with stately robes." ( garments signify the expression of Christ in His divine glory and His human beauty.
    By the way Joshua had the same Hebrew name as Jesus. Look up the meanings of those names and you will see that they are the same. Actually there is a place in the New Testament portion of the KJV that is talking about Joshua of the Old Testament and it says Jesus. This has been changed in the NKJV to prevent confusion between the two people.

    Hebrews 4:8 and Acts 7:45

    The Instructor
  14. Standard membersonshiponline
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    20 Jun '13 11:121 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    By the way Joshua had the same Hebrew name as Jesus. Look up the meanings of those names and you will see that they are the same. Actually there is a place in the New Testament portion of the KJV that is talking about Joshua of the Old Testament and it says Jesus. This has been changed in the NKJV to prevent confusion between the two people.

    Hebrews 4:8 and Acts 7:45

    The Instructor
    Praise the Lord Jesus.

    Yes, I am aware that Jesus is the Greek for Joshua.
    Joshua and Jesus had the same name.

    Joshua of the book of Joshua was a strong type of Christ for certain.

    The Recovery Version has these two verses as thus:

    Hebrews 4:8 - For if Joshua had brought them into rest, He would not have spoken concerning another day after these things.

    Acts 7:45 - This tabernacle our fathers, having in their turn received, also brought in with Joshua when they took possession of the nation ... etc
  15. Standard membersonshiponline
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    20 Jun '13 20:512 edits
    Related to my OP of God sends God I now submit Romans 8:9-11. It is seen there that the indwelling Holy Spirit is also a matter of God sending God to believers in Christ.

    Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit is God finally reaching man's innermost being as the Trinity dispensed into man. Romans 8 is excellent to show this.

    "But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Romans 8:9-11)

    The small s spirit is the human spirit - the innermost kernel of the Christian believer's being.

    Paul uses the following titles interchangeably - The Spirit of God - the Spirit of Christ - Christ - the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.

    Since the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ - " ... the Spirit of God dwells in you, ... have the Spirit of Christ ...".

    Since the incarnation and resurrection the Spirit of Christ is Christ Himself in another form - " ... have the Spirit of Christ, ... Christ is in you ..."

    The indwelling Christ is also the Spirit of the One Who resurrected Christ (the Father) - " ... Christ is in you ... the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you ..."

    The Holy Spirit therefore is the Triune God finally reaching man to dispense God INTO man in an indwelling way.

    The interchangeable titles "the Spirit of God" - "the Spirit of Christ" - "Christ" - "the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead" show God pouring out His triune being into man's for the indwelling of Jehovah God in man.

    God reaches man's inward parts as the Holy Spirit - the Third of the Triune God.
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